Public Lecture: History and Future of Immersive Experiences

welcome welcome
colleagues and guests to this uh the colleagues and guests to this uh the colleagues and guests to this uh the
first first first
and this year's series of public and this year's series of public and this year's series of public
lectures presented by the school of the lectures presented by the school of the lectures presented by the school of the
arts arts arts
in which we celebrate the research of in which we celebrate the research of in which we celebrate the research of
the school and share it the school and share it the school and share it
with wider audiences both inside and with wider audiences both inside and with wider audiences both inside and
outside the university of liverpool outside the university of liverpool outside the university of liverpool
my name is peter buse and i'm the dean my name is peter buse and i'm the dean my name is peter buse and i'm the dean
of the school each of the school's five of the school each of the school's five of the school each of the school's five
disciplines is represented in this disciplines is represented in this disciplines is represented in this
series which runs this year from march series which runs this year from march series which runs this year from march
to may to may to may
and takes as its guiding title word and takes as its guiding title word and takes as its guiding title word
image power image power image power
in coming weeks we'll hear from patricia in coming weeks we'll hear from patricia in coming weeks we'll hear from patricia
rossini of the communication and media rossini of the communication and media rossini of the communication and media
department department department
simran singh from music rachel wiseman simran singh from music rachel wiseman simran singh from music rachel wiseman
from philosophy from philosophy from philosophy
and will slocum from english our and will slocum from english our and will slocum from english our
speakers aren't obliged to address speakers aren't obliged to address speakers aren't obliged to address
all three terms in our series title but all three terms in our series title but all three terms in our series title but
they will often use one or two of them they will often use one or two of them they will often use one or two of them
as a springboard for thought this is our as a springboard for thought this is our as a springboard for thought this is our
third series third series third series
for our first series in 2019 and then for our first series in 2019 and then for our first series in 2019 and then
for most of our second series last year for most of our second series last year for most of our second series last year
these talks were held on campus in these talks were held on campus in these talks were held on campus in
lecture theaters which would now be lecture theaters which would now be lecture theaters which would now be
considered highly reckless and considered highly reckless and considered highly reckless and
irresponsible irresponsible irresponsible
we all miss these in-person events we all miss these in-person events we all miss these in-person events
intensely not least intensely not least intensely not least
for the opportunities they provide for for the opportunities they provide for for the opportunities they provide for
socializing at the wine receptions socializing at the wine receptions socializing at the wine receptions
afterwards afterwards afterwards
and we are really looking forward to and we are really looking forward to and we are really looking forward to
doing them again on campus doing them again on campus doing them again on campus
however for those of us who have been however for those of us who have been however for those of us who have been
attending all sorts of great online attending all sorts of great online attending all sorts of great online
events events events
we're also seeing the benefits we know we're also seeing the benefits we know we're also seeing the benefits we know
for example that we are reaching many for example that we are reaching many for example that we are reaching many
people this evening who might not be people this evening who might not be people this evening who might not be
able to make their way up mount pleasant able to make their way up mount pleasant able to make their way up mount pleasant
on a wet wednesday to our campus never on a wet wednesday to our campus never on a wet wednesday to our campus never
mind being able to come to liverpool at mind being able to come to liverpool at mind being able to come to liverpool at
all all all
for beatrice garcia's talk at the end of for beatrice garcia's talk at the end of for beatrice garcia's talk at the end of
last year the audience came from all last year the audience came from all last year the audience came from all
over the uk and the world over the uk and the world over the uk and the world
that is again the case this evening and that is again the case this evening and that is again the case this evening and
you're all very welcome to the you're all very welcome to the you're all very welcome to the
university of liverpool university of liverpool university of liverpool
online having talks online also makes it online having talks online also makes it online having talks online also makes it
easier easier easier
for us to have guests join us and this for us to have guests join us and this for us to have guests join us and this
evening we're incredibly fortunate evening we're incredibly fortunate evening we're incredibly fortunate
to be joined for this exploration of the to be joined for this exploration of the to be joined for this exploration of the
history and future of immersive history and future of immersive history and future of immersive
experiences experiences experiences
by roz coleman from punch drunk niall by roz coleman from punch drunk niall by roz coleman from punch drunk niall
harding hill from ardemon animations and harding hill from ardemon animations and harding hill from ardemon animations and
we hope soon we hope soon we hope soon
gavin strange also from aardman gavin strange also from aardman gavin strange also from aardman
animations who will join richard koeck animations who will join richard koeck animations who will join richard koeck
in dialogue in dialogue in dialogue
after his talk after that the panel will after his talk after that the panel will after his talk after that the panel will
be taking questions from you in the be taking questions from you in the be taking questions from you in the
audience audience audience
as you will know because you've already as you will know because you've already as you will know because you've already
had a prompt this lecture is being had a prompt this lecture is being had a prompt this lecture is being
recorded recorded recorded
and will be made available on the and will be made available on the and will be made available on the
university website afterwards university website afterwards university website afterwards
the chat function at the bottom of the the chat function at the bottom of the the chat function at the bottom of the
panel will be open throughout panel will be open throughout panel will be open throughout
and you can put comments in there but if and you can put comments in there but if and you can put comments in there but if
you want to ask questions of the panel you want to ask questions of the panel you want to ask questions of the panel
or richard of course we ask that you or richard of course we ask that you or richard of course we ask that you
enter them under the q enter them under the q enter them under the q
a section rather than in the chat where a section rather than in the chat where a section rather than in the chat where
it's harder for us to keep track of them it's harder for us to keep track of them it's harder for us to keep track of them
so moving on now to the main event i'm so moving on now to the main event i'm so moving on now to the main event i'm
delighted to present to you professor delighted to present to you professor delighted to present to you professor
richard koeck richard koeck richard koeck
richard is professor of architecture at richard is professor of architecture at richard is professor of architecture at
the university of liverpool the university of liverpool the university of liverpool
and since 2008 director at the and since 2008 director at the and since 2008 director at the
university of cava university of cava university of cava
the center for architecture and the the center for architecture and the the center for architecture and the
visual arts he combines research with visual arts he combines research with visual arts he combines research with
creative practice creative practice creative practice
often in partnership with cultural and often in partnership with cultural and often in partnership with cultural and
creative industries in the city creative industries in the city creative industries in the city
and beyond in this capacity is also and beyond in this capacity is also and beyond in this capacity is also
co-director with monica koeck co-director with monica koeck co-director with monica koeck
of the film production company of the film production company of the film production company
scenitecture limited scenitecture limited scenitecture limited
recently he's developed the world's recently he's developed the world's recently he's developed the world's
first mixed reality heritage first mixed reality heritage first mixed reality heritage
heritage experience at st george's hall heritage experience at st george's hall heritage experience at st george's hall
liverpool liverpool liverpool
as well as through mobile and augmented as well as through mobile and augmented as well as through mobile and augmented
reality the official riba reality the official riba reality the official riba
architectural tour of liverpool he's architectural tour of liverpool he's architectural tour of liverpool he's
currently leading two currently leading two currently leading two
arts and humanities research council arts and humanities research council arts and humanities research council
grants in relation to grants in relation to grants in relation to
immersive experiences in shanghai china immersive experiences in shanghai china immersive experiences in shanghai china
in collaboration with world leading in collaboration with world leading in collaboration with world leading
animation studio aardman animation studio aardman animation studio aardman
and the shanghai theatre academy his and the shanghai theatre academy his and the shanghai theatre academy his
talk this evening is about talk this evening is about talk this evening is about
immersive experiences from an historical immersive experiences from an historical immersive experiences from an historical
and media archaeological perspective and media archaeological perspective and media archaeological perspective
as he gives us a preview of some of the as he gives us a preview of some of the as he gives us a preview of some of the
ideas going into his next book ideas going into his next book ideas going into his next book
entitled immersed in the image of the entitled immersed in the image of the entitled immersed in the image of the
city due out from routledge next year city due out from routledge next year city due out from routledge next year
as he will explain in a moment he shares as he will explain in a moment he shares as he will explain in a moment he shares
with our guests from aardman and with our guests from aardman and with our guests from aardman and
punchtrunk punchtrunk punchtrunk
a fascination with and a passion for a fascination with and a passion for a fascination with and a passion for
pioneering innovation in the field of pioneering innovation in the field of pioneering innovation in the field of
entertainment entertainment entertainment
and visitor experiences which often and visitor experiences which often and visitor experiences which often
requires the pushing of technological requires the pushing of technological requires the pushing of technological
limits limits limits
you'll get nowhere he thinks without a you'll get nowhere he thinks without a you'll get nowhere he thinks without a
good deal of disruptive thinking good deal of disruptive thinking good deal of disruptive thinking
entrepreneurial spirit and risk taking entrepreneurial spirit and risk taking entrepreneurial spirit and risk taking
so so so
over to you richard right i hope you can over to you richard right i hope you can over to you richard right i hope you can
all see my screen thank you watch peter all see my screen thank you watch peter all see my screen thank you watch peter
for this for this for this
very kind introduction thank you to the very kind introduction thank you to the very kind introduction thank you to the
school of the arts and to all the school of the arts and to all the school of the arts and to all the
organizers who have made this event organizers who have made this event organizers who have made this event
possible possible possible
thank you very much also special thanks thank you very much also special thanks thank you very much also special thanks
to erki to erkki to erkki
huhtamo from ucla who inspired me huhtamo from ucla who inspired me huhtamo from ucla who inspired me
tremendously and doing the research that tremendously and doing the research that tremendously and doing the research that
i'm currently doing i'm currently doing i'm currently doing
and also thanking him for giving me one and also thanking him for giving me one and also thanking him for giving me one
of his images that you're going to see of his images that you're going to see of his images that you're going to see
in a moment's time from this precious in a moment's time from this precious in a moment's time from this precious
collection collection collection
and i would like to thank obviously the and i would like to thank obviously the and i would like to thank obviously the
audience that has signed up in such audience that has signed up in such audience that has signed up in such
large numbers for this event large numbers for this event large numbers for this event
right so without further ado well we are right so without further ado well we are right so without further ado well we are
here today to talk about here today to talk about here today to talk about
immersive experiences i think the term immersive experiences i think the term immersive experiences i think the term
probably is probably is probably is
quite much debated at the time i think quite much debated at the time i think quite much debated at the time i think
some some some
of us would probably say we live in an of us would probably say we live in an of us would probably say we live in an
age of experiences age of experiences age of experiences
we certainly are living in an age where we certainly are living in an age where we certainly are living in an age where
we see an experience economy we see an experience economy we see an experience economy
cities are more and more reliant on a cities are more and more reliant on a cities are more and more reliant on a
visitor economy and visitor economy and visitor economy and
probably this is a good reason for probably this is a good reason for probably this is a good reason for
someone like myself who has an someone like myself who has an someone like myself who has an
architectural background architectural background architectural background
to look at this topic a little bit more to look at this topic a little bit more to look at this topic a little bit more
closer from in this case closer from in this case closer from in this case
a media archaeological and design a media archaeological and design a media archaeological and design
perspective perspective perspective
if you own a mobile phone and i'm sure if you own a mobile phone and i'm sure if you own a mobile phone and i'm sure you do and if you are remotely you do and if you are remotely
interested in digital technology you interested in digital technology you interested in digital technology you
will have heard about augmented and will have heard about augmented and will have heard about augmented and
virtual virtual virtual
reality you might think that such reality you might think that such reality you might think that such
experiences that you can get from experiences that you can get from experiences that you can get from
mobile devices for instance are somehow mobile devices for instance are somehow mobile devices for instance are somehow
new and new and new and
groundbreaking and i'm sorry to groundbreaking and i'm sorry to groundbreaking and i'm sorry to
disappoint you disappoint you disappoint you
i don't think they are i think they're i don't think they are i think they're i don't think they are i think they're
not in fact not in fact not in fact
immersive experiences per se for me have immersive experiences per se for me have immersive experiences per se for me have
nothing to do nothing to do nothing to do
with mobile or wearable technology the with mobile or wearable technology the with mobile or wearable technology the
first immersive experiences that i first immersive experiences that i first immersive experiences that i
can think of are all spatial or even can think of are all spatial or even can think of are all spatial or even
architectural in nature architectural in nature architectural in nature
so there's indeed a long history of an so there's indeed a long history of an so there's indeed a long history of an
interesting and spectacular history of interesting and spectacular history of interesting and spectacular history of
immersive installations immersive installations immersive installations
but as you know my talk today will focus but as you know my talk today will focus but as you know my talk today will focus
on the on the on the
world exposition the exposition universelle world exposition, the exposition universelle world exposition, the exposition universelle
in paris in the year 1900 and i will in paris in the year 1900 and i will in paris in the year 1900 and i will
talk about some of the pioneers some of talk about some of the pioneers some of talk about some of the pioneers some of
the thinking that has gone into their the thinking that has gone into their the thinking that has gone into their
innovations what kind of innovation was innovations what kind of innovation was innovations what kind of innovation was
actually necessary actually necessary actually necessary
to create these immersive experiences to create these immersive experiences to create these immersive experiences
and what kind of risks and what kind of risks and what kind of risks
have they taken to fulfill have they taken to fulfill have they taken to fulfill
the ambition to create these visitor the ambition to create these visitor the ambition to create these visitor
experiences for large audiences experiences for large audiences experiences for large audiences
so apologies here i lured you into this so apologies here i lured you into this so apologies here i lured you into this
talk thinking talk thinking talk thinking
probably you're going to attend a probably you're going to attend a probably you're going to attend a
history lecture but i'm using this a history lecture but i'm using this a history lecture but i'm using this a
little bit as an excuse little bit as an excuse little bit as an excuse
to talk about innovation to talk about innovation to talk about innovation
entrepreneurship entrepreneurship entrepreneurship
risks failures and hopefully also risks failures and hopefully also risks failures and hopefully also
some rewards i would like to some rewards i would like to some rewards i would like to
start my talk with this slide from start my talk with this slide from start my talk with this slide from
teamlab it's an exhibition called teamlab it's an exhibition called teamlab it's an exhibition called
borderless i could have borderless i could have borderless i could have
started with other slides i'm not started with other slides i'm not started with other slides i'm not
being paid by teamlab being paid by teamlab being paid by teamlab
there are other companies out there who there are other companies out there who there are other companies out there who
create digital immersive experiences create digital immersive experiences create digital immersive experiences
such as artechouse or meow wolf such as artechouse or meow wolf such as artechouse or meow wolf
but i think teamlab is a is a but i think teamlab is a is a but i think teamlab is a is a
particularly good example particularly good example particularly good example
teamlab is a world-leading digital art teamlab is a world-leading digital art teamlab is a world-leading digital art
collective they have been around for collective they have been around for collective they have been around for
some time some time some time
they have been founded in tokyo in 2001 they have been founded in tokyo in 2001 they have been founded in tokyo in 2001
and uh in june 2018 they started this and uh in june 2018 they started this and uh in june 2018 they started this
exhibition exhibition exhibition
called borderless in the mori building called borderless in the mori building called borderless in the mori building
in the digital art museum in tokyo in the digital art museum in tokyo in the digital art museum in tokyo
and in the first 12 months of their and in the first 12 months of their and in the first 12 months of their
exhibition they welcomed altogether exhibition they welcomed altogether exhibition they welcomed altogether
about 2.3 million visitors from about 2.3 million visitors from about 2.3 million visitors from
160 different countries which put them 160 different countries which put them 160 different countries which put them
into a similar into a similar into a similar
league than other leading museums in japan league than other leading museums in japan league than other leading museums in japan
such as the tokyo national museum such as the tokyo national museum such as the tokyo national museum
and before we go any further perhaps i and before we go any further perhaps i and before we go any further perhaps i
should give you should give you should give you
a small description or definition of a small description or definition of a small description or definition of
how i how i how i
would define immersive experiences in would define immersive experiences in would define immersive experiences in
the context of the context of the context of
my talk today we're talking about my talk today we're talking about my talk today we're talking about
purpose designed purpose designed purpose designed
360 degrees spatial illusions 360 degrees spatial illusions 360 degrees spatial illusions
embodied experiences where no embodied experiences where no embodied experiences where no
headsets headsets headsets
are needed visitor attractions are needed visitor attractions are needed visitor attractions
that somehow are transgressing that somehow are transgressing that somehow are transgressing
between public art architecture and between public art architecture and between public art architecture and
entertainment entertainment entertainment
and in today's context are often driven and in today's context are often driven and in today's context are often driven
by a combination of digital technologies by a combination of digital technologies by a combination of digital technologies
to those of you in the audience who are to those of you in the audience who are to those of you in the audience who are
from an architectural background you from an architectural background you from an architectural background you
might find it interesting might find it interesting might find it interesting
to see that immersive experiences to see that immersive experiences to see that immersive experiences
as a topic is not entirely new as a topic is not entirely new as a topic is not entirely new
Le Corbusier in vers une architecture in 1923 Le Corbusier in vers une architecture in 1923 Le Corbusier in vers une architecture in 1923
talked about the house as being a talked about the house as being a talked about the house as being a
machine for living in machine for living in machine for living in
and in fact this notion of the machine and in fact this notion of the machine and in fact this notion of the machine
has been picked up by the teamlab has been picked up by the teamlab has been picked up by the teamlab
collaborative as they called the borderless collaborative as they called the borderless collaborative as they called the borderless
exhibition the experience machine exhibition the experience machine exhibition the experience machine
and i think that's sort of an and i think that's sort of an and i think that's sort of an
interesting observation in the sense interesting observation in the sense interesting observation in the sense
that that that
you know are we as a society today you know are we as a society today you know are we as a society today
more interested about the quality of more interested about the quality of more interested about the quality of
immersive experiences or the quality of immersive experiences or the quality of immersive experiences or the quality of
housing but housing but housing but
i'll leave you with this question and i'll leave you with this question and i'll leave you with this question and
you probably can answer that yourself you probably can answer that yourself you probably can answer that yourself
now let's go to this very much now let's go to this very much now let's go to this very much
anticipated moment in time anticipated moment in time anticipated moment in time
paris 1900 the exposition universelle paris 1900 the exposition universelle paris 1900 the exposition universelle
i could have chosen obviously a i could have chosen obviously a i could have chosen obviously a
different moment in time to different moment in time to different moment in time to
speak about the immersive experiences speak about the immersive experiences speak about the immersive experiences
the history is full of examples of these the history is full of examples of these the history is full of examples of these
purpose-built installations purpose-built installations purpose-built installations
in fact most churches are probably in fact most churches are probably in fact most churches are probably
immersive experiences immersive experiences immersive experiences
but i could have talked about cabinets but i could have talked about cabinets but i could have talked about cabinets
of curiosities of curiosities of curiosities
or 18th or 19th centuries panoramas or 18th or 19th centuries panoramas or 18th or 19th centuries panoramas
and the paris world exposition however i and the paris world exposition however i and the paris world exposition however i
think is a think is a think is a
it's a particular important moment in it's a particular important moment in it's a particular important moment in
time it's a time it's a time it's a
it's a moment of transition in the it's a moment of transition in the it's a moment of transition in the
history of architecture history of architecture history of architecture
in social history in technological in social history in technological in social history in technological
histories and histories and histories and
at the start of a new century and we are at the start of a new century and we are at the start of a new century and we are
in the heart of a city in in the in the heart of a city in
which art culture which art culture which art culture
critical thought are at its absolute critical thought are at its absolute critical thought are at its absolute
pinnacle pinnacle pinnacle
and it's of course one of the birth and it's of course one of the birth and it's of course one of the birth
places of modernity places of modernity places of modernity
the event the expo itself was attended the event the expo itself was attended the event the expo itself was attended
by nearly 50 million people by nearly 50 million people by nearly 50 million people
and you could probably say that being in and you could probably say that being in and you could probably say that being in
the exhibition was the exhibition was the exhibition was
i think in itself a form of an immersive i think in itself a form of an immersive i think in itself a form of an immersive
experience experience experience
now the expo 1900 now the expo 1900 now the expo 1900
showed several technological innovations showed several technological innovations showed several technological innovations
and pavilions here for instance we have and pavilions here for instance we have and pavilions here for instance we have
the palais de illusion which was a major the palais de illusion which was a major the palais de illusion which was a major
attraction a large hall covered with attraction a large hall covered with attraction a large hall covered with
mirrors mirrors mirrors
designed to produce an illusion of depth designed to produce an illusion of depth designed to produce an illusion of depth
combined with electrical lighting it combined with electrical lighting it combined with electrical lighting it
created this architectural created this architectural created this architectural
setting that probably inspired people setting that probably inspired people setting that probably inspired people
and and and
and created some form of amazement and created some form of amazement and created some form of amazement
a number of technical innovations a number of technical innovations a number of technical innovations
were were were
showcased at the world expo here come showcased at the world expo here come showcased at the world expo here come
to mind for instance the ferris wheel to mind for instance the ferris wheel to mind for instance the ferris wheel
the diesel engine escalators the diesel engine escalators the diesel engine escalators
early forms of talking films the first early forms of talking films the first early forms of talking films the first
magnetic audio recorder and more magnetic audio recorder and more magnetic audio recorder and more
and in fact what you can see here on the and in fact what you can see here on the and in fact what you can see here on the
screen on my slide is screen on my slide is screen on my slide is
an image of the first moving sidewalk an image of the first moving sidewalk an image of the first moving sidewalk
the sort of mechanism for an the sort of mechanism for an the sort of mechanism for an
electrically electrically electrically
propelled amplified flaneur propelled amplified flaneur propelled amplified flaneur
experience in paris and we have here experience in paris and we have here experience in paris and we have here
this wonderful this wonderful this wonderful
image from erkki that he borrowed me for image from erkki that he borrowed me for image from erkki that he borrowed me for
this talk it's a stereoscopic this talk it's a stereoscopic this talk it's a stereoscopic
postcard which would have immersed postcard which would have immersed postcard which would have immersed
people literally into the image of the people literally into the image of the people literally into the image of the
city if they had not the city if they had not the city if they had not the
ability to go and see the event ability to go and see the event ability to go and see the event
themselves themselves themselves
now the paris expo in terms of the history of paris expo in terms of the history of
immersive experience i think immersive experience i think immersive experience i think
was a moment of transition as well was a moment of transition as well was a moment of transition as well
the reason is that earlier immersive the reason is that earlier immersive the reason is that earlier immersive
purpose-built purpose-built purpose-built
experiences such as that of robert experiences such as that of robert experiences such as that of robert
barker's the london panorama comes to barker's the london panorama comes to barker's the london panorama comes to
mind for instance mind for instance mind for instance
that was in the 1793 when they patented it that was in the 1793 when they patented it that was in the 1793 when they patented it
such attractions aimed to deceiving such attractions aimed to deceiving such attractions aimed to deceiving
our senses giving the spectator for our senses giving the spectator for our senses giving the spectator for
instance a sense of a bodily immersion instance a sense of a bodily immersion instance a sense of a bodily immersion
in an in an in an
impossible place through methods that impossible place through methods that impossible place through methods that
were largely based on vision and visual were largely based on vision and visual were largely based on vision and visual
curiosity curiosity curiosity
such exhibits of for instance panoramic such exhibits of for instance panoramic such exhibits of for instance panoramic
paintings on the outside of the wall paintings on the outside of the wall paintings on the outside of the wall
as indeed later photographs essentially as indeed later photographs essentially as indeed later photographs essentially
froze froze froze
and reproduced particular places events and reproduced particular places events and reproduced particular places events
or moments in time or moments in time or moments in time
by contrast the exhibitions at the by contrast the exhibitions at the by contrast the exhibitions at the
expo 1900 in paris many of them focused expo 1900 in paris many of them focused expo 1900 in paris many of them focused
on movement on movement on movement
and as a new and distinctly modern and as a new and distinctly modern and as a new and distinctly modern
visual regime as a means to visual regime as a means to visual regime as a means to
simulate traveling through space as well simulate traveling through space as well simulate traveling through space as well
as a means to illustrate as a means to illustrate as a means to illustrate
the passing of time and erkki huhtamo and the passing of time and erkki huhtamo and the passing of time and erkki huhtamo and
others others others
note that virtual voyaging became one of note that virtual voyaging became one of note that virtual voyaging became one of
the most thought after the most thought after the most thought after
attractions at the paris expo quite a attractions at the paris expo quite a attractions at the paris expo quite a
few few few
exhibitions were based on what he calls exhibitions were based on what he calls exhibitions were based on what he calls
vehicular vehicular vehicular
amplification meaning that a simulated amplification meaning that a simulated amplification meaning that a simulated
spatial reality was not simply spatial reality was not simply spatial reality was not simply
represented through animated images for represented through animated images for represented through animated images for
instance but instance but instance but
that the auditorium itself was turned that the auditorium itself was turned that the auditorium itself was turned
into a vehicle such as a train a boat into a vehicle such as a train a boat into a vehicle such as a train a boat
or a hot air balloon and this brings me to the three and this brings me to the three
exhibitions i would like to exhibitions i would like to exhibitions i would like to
talk about today the first one is by the talk about today the first one is by the talk about today the first one is by the
lumiere brothers lumiere brothers lumiere brothers
the second one by hugo d'alessi and then the second one by hugo d'alessi and then the second one by hugo d'alessi and then
raul grimoin-sanson raul grimoin-sanson raul grimoin-sanson
the lumiere brothers created the lumiere brothers created the lumiere brothers created
a fantastic cinematic experience a fantastic cinematic experience a fantastic cinematic experience
called the ecran giant you would have called the ecran giant you would have called the ecran giant you would have
come across the name of the lumiere come across the name of the lumiere come across the name of the lumiere
brothers probably they are of course the brothers probably they are of course the brothers probably they are of course the
credited inventors of the cinematic credited inventors of the cinematic credited inventors of the cinematic
experience that did the first public experience that did the first public experience that did the first public
screening screening screening
in the grand cafe in paris in december in the grand cafe in paris in december in the grand cafe in paris in december
of 1895 and their taking part in the of 1895 and their taking part in the of 1895 and their taking part in the
exposure universelle can be seen as exposure universelle can be seen as exposure universelle can be seen as
forming forming forming
being part of the lumiere company's being part of the lumiere company's being part of the lumiere company's
wider concern to be wider concern to be wider concern to be
internationally known as the inventors internationally known as the inventors internationally known as the inventors
of the cinema and to popularize of the cinema and to popularize of the cinema and to popularize
moving images as a form of mass moving images as a form of of mass moving images as a form of mass
entertainment particularly entertainment particularly entertainment particularly
after a period when the initial novelty after a period when the initial novelty after a period when the initial novelty
factor of moving images has begun to factor of moving images has begun to factor of moving images has begun to
wear off wear off wear off
and indeed also saw some setbacks some and indeed also saw some setbacks some and indeed also saw some setbacks some
setbacks you might say setbacks you might say setbacks you might say
what kind of setbacks are we talking what kind of setbacks are we talking what kind of setbacks are we talking
about here well we tend to forget about here well we tend to forget about here well we tend to forget
that what kind of technical innovation that what kind of technical innovation that what kind of technical innovation
was was was
actually necessary and what kind was actually necessary and what kind was actually necessary and what kind was
investment investment investment
was necessary to stage such cinematic was necessary to stage such cinematic was necessary to stage such cinematic
events at that time events at that time events at that time
and – actually the risks that were and – actually the risks that were and – actually the risks that were
taken taken taken
by the pioneers and sometimes also the by the pioneers and sometimes also the by the pioneers and sometimes also the
audiences who attended these audiences who attended these audiences who attended these
events going to the cinema you could say events going to the cinema you could say events going to the cinema you could say
was almost a matter of life and death was almost a matter of life and death was almost a matter of life and death
certainly for this crowd here only three certainly for this crowd here only three certainly for this crowd here only three
years years years
earlier in 1897 earlier in 1897 earlier in 1897
a fire arguably caused by the a fire arguably caused by the a fire arguably caused by the
cinematograph cinematograph cinematograph
whose projection lamp were lit with whose projection lamp were lit with whose projection lamp were lit with
vaporizing vaporizing vaporizing
ether caused to burn down the bazar de la charite ether caused to burn down the bazar de la charite ether caused to burn down the bazar de la charite
in which a hundred people unfortunately in which a hundred people unfortunately in which a hundred people unfortunately
most of them aristocratic women died most of them aristocratic women died most of them aristocratic women died
this naturally cast a degree of doubt this naturally cast a degree of doubt this naturally cast a degree of doubt
over the medium of film over the medium of film over the medium of film
and its promise to become a safe viable and its promise to become a safe viable and its promise to become a safe viable
and financially and financially and financially
profitable form of mass entertainment profitable form of mass entertainment profitable form of mass entertainment
many considered the popularity of film many considered the popularity of film many considered the popularity of film
to be short-lived and to be short-lived and to be short-lived and
in fact after the disaster to probably be in fact after the disaster to probably be in fact after the disaster to probably be
over there was even a short period when the there was even a short period when the
screening of moving images screening of moving images screening of moving images
was not permitted now that provides hopefully an now that provides hopefully an
interesting context interesting context interesting context
when in fact lumiere louis lumiere was when in fact lumiere louis lumiere was when in fact lumiere louis lumiere was
approached by approached by approached by
alfred picard the general secretary alfred picard the general secretary alfred picard the general secretary
of the world expo in paris to whom he of the world expo in paris to whom he of the world expo in paris to whom he
proposed to conduct proposed to conduct proposed to conduct
a moving image experiment that would a moving image experiment that would a moving image experiment that would
showcase the company's ability to showcase the company's ability to showcase the company's ability to
project with a project with a project with a
relatively small device a greatly relatively small device a greatly relatively small device a greatly
enlarged moving image enlarged moving image enlarged moving image
which could be seen by thousands of which could be seen by thousands of which could be seen by thousands of
people at the same time people at the same time people at the same time
so the idea was to set up a gigantic so the idea was to set up a gigantic so the idea was to set up a gigantic
screen screen screen
in the gallerie des machines a building in the gallerie des machines a building in the gallerie des machines a building
that itself was full of superlatives and that itself was full of superlatives and that itself was full of superlatives and
staging a cinematic event of such a staging a cinematic event of such a staging a cinematic event of such a
caliber caliber caliber
posed a lot of risks the gallery posed a lot of risks the gallery posed a lot of risks the gallery
machines was originally built for the machines was originally built for the machines was originally built for the
paris worldfair of 1889 paris worldfair of 1889 paris worldfair of 1889
and it was at the time with a span of and it was at the time with a span of and it was at the time with a span of
nearly 111 meters nearly 111 meters nearly 111 meters
360 feet the world's largest wide-spanned 360 feet the world's largest wide-spanned 360 feet the world's largest wide-spanned
iron framed structure in the world band iron framed structure in the world band iron framed structure in the world
it was about 428 meters long it was about 428 meters long it was about 428 meters long
which is around – over 1400 feet which is around – over 1400 feet which is around – over 1400 feet
long so a building of gigantic long so a building of gigantic long so a building of gigantic
dimensions and splendor dimensions and splendor dimensions and splendor
the gallerie des machines was for the the gallerie des machines was for the the gallerie de machines was for the
event divided in the middle event divided in the middle event divided in the middle
to make and divide it up into to make and divide it up into to make and divide it up into
sections and the middle part the sections and the middle part the sections and the middle part the
the so-called salle des fêtes with a diameter of still salle des fêtes with a diameters of still
over 100 meter was chosen as the over 100 meters was chosen as the over 100 meters was chosen as the
location for the location for the location for the
screening of the of the ecran geant screening of the of the ecran geant screening of the of the ecran geant
there were a number of big questions there were a number of big questions there were a number of big questions
here here here
how could you for instance how could you for instance how could you for instance
show moving images with one projector in show moving images with one projector in show moving images with one projector in
a circular hall a circular hall a circular hall
obviously affording a number of viewing obviously affording a number of viewing obviously affording a number of viewing
angles to thousands of people at the angles to thousands of people at the angles to thousands of people at the
same time same time same time
and i have here on the screen a and i have here on the screen a and i have here on the screen a
relatively rare relatively rare relatively rare
image of that event i think i've never image of that event i think i've never image of that event i think i've never
come across any other image than than come across any other image than than come across any other image than than
this one this one this one
the lumiere brothers for this event the lumiere brothers for this event the lumiere brothers for this event
knew they had to come up with a series knew they had to come up with a series knew they had to come up with a series
of innovations of innovations of innovations
to showcase moving images to so many to showcase moving images to so many to showcase moving images to so many
people people people
first of all they thought about the first of all they thought about the first of all they thought about the
image itself they needed an image image itself they needed an image image itself they needed an image
with a particularly high resolution so with a particularly high resolution so with a particularly high resolution so
they constructed and built they constructed and built they constructed and built
a special 75 millimeter format camera a special 75 millimeter format camera a special 75 millimeter format camera
for this screening they even recorded some for this screening they even recorded some for this screening they even recorded some
images with it images with it images with it
but they could never show these high but they could never show these high but they could never show these high
resolution images for the final event resolution images for the final event resolution images for the final event
because because because
they weren't able to produce and build a they weren't able to produce and build a they weren't able to produce and build a
projector in time for the world expo projector in time for the world expo projector in time for the world expo
instead they used a 35 millimeter print instead they used a 35 millimeter print instead they used a 35 millimeter print
equipped now with an equipped now with an equipped now with an
electric lamp and that was brighter and electric lamp and that was brighter and electric lamp and that was brighter and
and also safer and they shot their and also safer and they shot their and also safer and they shot their
moving images through a moving images through a moving images through a
cooling water tank that was cooling water tank that was cooling water tank that was
positioned between the light source positioned between the light source positioned between the light source
and the nitrate films the screen that and the nitrate films the screen that and the nitrate films the screen that
you see here you see here you see here
on your screen had some on your screen had some on your screen had some
considerations as well it had to be considerations as well it had to be considerations as well it had to be
translucent translucent translucent
translucent enough that audiences translucent enough that audiences translucent enough that audiences
on both sides of the screen could sit in on both sides of the screen could sit in on both sides of the screen could sit in
the circular halls and the circular halls and the circular halls and
enjoy the envent but also reflective enjoy the envent but also reflective enjoy the envent but also reflective
enough enough enough
and louis lumiere found a quite and louis lumiere found a quite and louis lumiere found a quite
resourceful resourceful resourceful
and pragmatic solution for this when and pragmatic solution for this when and pragmatic solution for this when
they conducted the first they conducted the first they conducted the first
uh experiments and did some first uh experiments and did some first uh experiments and did some first
testing the fire brigade the paris fire testing the fire brigade the paris fire testing the fire brigade the paris fire
prograde was present prograde was present prograde was present
of course and this gave him an idea of course and this gave him an idea of course and this gave him an idea
he asked the fire brigade to moisture he asked the fire brigade to moisture he asked the fire brigade to moisture
the screen prior to the shows which the screen prior to the shows which the screen prior to the shows which
according to his own account according to his own account according to his own account
produced a remarkable result produced a remarkable result produced a remarkable result
and to avoid that the fire brigade had and to avoid that the fire brigade had and to avoid that the fire brigade had
to to to
come and spray the the screen every come and spray the the screen every come and spray the the screen every
night night night
they built the large concrete uh water they built the large concrete uh water they built the large concrete uh water
tank which was built and buried tank which was built and buried tank which was built and buried
underground in which the screen was kept underground in which the screen was kept underground in which the screen was kept
during the day and during the day and during the day and
in the evening hours when there was the in the evening hours when there was the in the evening hours when there was the
uh when there was the show uh when there was the show uh when there was the show
uh they hand wrenched it up into place uh they hand wrenched it up into place uh they hand wrenched it up into place
uh for the screening uh for the screening uh for the screening
summing up the lumiere brothers showed summing up the lumiere brothers showed summing up the lumiere brothers showed
their circa their circa their circa
25 minutes long program that consisted of 25 minutes long program that consisted of 25 minutes long program that consisted of
15 15 15
films to an audience of films to an audience of films to an audience of
up to between 20 to 25 000 up to between 20 to 25 000 up to between 20 to 25 000
people at the time the screening proved people at the time the screening proved people at the time the screening proved
to be to be to be
enormously popular and over the course enormously popular and over the course enormously popular and over the course
of the of the of the
exposition universelle about 1.4 exposition universelle about 1.4 exposition universelle about 1.4
million people saw the lumiere company's million people saw the lumiere company's million people saw the lumiere company's
work this was a turning point for the work this was a turning point for the work this was a turning point for the
company company company
for their future operations and for for their future operations and for for their future operations and for
cinema and the history of cinema cinema and the history of cinema cinema and the history of cinema
altogether this brings me to my next altogether this brings me to my next altogether this brings me to my next
immersive experience the so-called maréorama immersive experience the so-called maréorama immersive experience the so-called maréorama the creator of the maréorama was the the creator of the maréorama was the
graphic designer graphic designer graphic designer
illustrator inventor and entrepreneur illustrator inventor and entrepreneur illustrator inventor and entrepreneur
hugo hugo hugo
d'alesi born in hermannstadt in romania d'alesi born in hermannstadt in romania d'alesi born in hermannstadt in romania
not much is known about hugo d'alesi not much is known about hugo d'alesi not much is known about hugo d'alesi
particularly not much is known about his particularly not much is known about his particularly not much is known about his
early years early years early years
before he moved from hermannstadt to paris before he moved from hermannstadt to paris before he moved from hermannstadt to paris
but there are two interesting accounts but there are two interesting accounts but there are two interesting accounts
we know first of all he and his wife we know first of all he and his wife we know first of all he and his wife
were known in the 1880s were known in the 1880s were known in the 1880s
to host séance sessions in paris to host séance sessions in paris to host séance sessions in paris
to which hugo d'alesi acted as a medium to which hugo d'alesi acted as a medium to which hugo d'alesi acted as a medium
to communicate with the dead to communicate with the dead to communicate with the dead
his hand seemingly produced and his hand seemingly produced and his hand seemingly produced and
seemingly led seemingly led seemingly led
by the person's spirit quite beautiful by the person's spirit quite beautiful by the person's spirit quite beautiful
artistic artistic artistic
so-called automatic drawings so-called automatic drawings so-called automatic drawings
this shows us i think that uh hugo this shows us i think that uh hugo this shows us i think that uh hugo
d'alesi d'alesi d'alesi
the man was someone who was quite the man was someone who was quite the man was someone who was quite
interested i think in interested i think in interested i think in
performances and public entertainment performances and public entertainment performances and public entertainment
and it probably also helped that and it probably also helped that and it probably also helped that
particulary helped the spirit particulary helped the spirit particulary helped the spirit
that he was a quite talented and indeed that he was a quite talented and indeed that he was a quite talented and indeed
excellent excellent excellent
artist secondly in later years he made a artist secondly in later years he made a artist secondly in later years he made a a name for himself of becoming an a name for himself of becoming an
illustrator of illustrator of illustrator of
very picturesque posters and very picturesque posters and very picturesque posters and
illustrations for railway and shipping illustrations for railway and shipping illustrations for railway and shipping
companies companies companies
such as the chemic de fer plm or the such as the chemin de fer plm or the such as the chemin de fer plm or the
the automobile company claimant bayard the automobile company claimant-bayard the automobile company claimant-bayard
promoting new means of transport to and promoting new means of transport to and promoting new means of transport to and
from from from
popular tourist and travel destinations the maréorama attraction itself was the maréorama attraction itself was
a quite sophisticated and probably a quite sophisticated and probably a quite sophisticated and probably
regarded as regarded as regarded as
on one of the most sophisticated moving on one of the most sophisticated moving on one of the most sophisticated moving
panoramas panoramas panoramas
at the paris world expo and people at the paris world expo and people at the paris world expo and people
would enter a quite spectacular building would enter a quite spectacular building would enter a quite spectacular building
inside which they would find a inside which they would find a inside which they would find a
reconstructed steamship reconstructed steamship reconstructed steamship
that had moving paintings that had moving paintings that had moving paintings
on each side they would steer passengers on each side they would steer passengers on each side they would steer passengers
alongside the mediterranean coastline alongside the mediterranean coastline alongside the mediterranean coastline
from from from
the code d'azure from villefranche to the code d'azure from villefranche to the code d'azure from villefranche to
constantinople constantinople constantinople
with intermitting stops in cities such with intermitting stops in cities such with intermitting stops in cities such
as souse in tunisia as souse in tunisia as souse in tunisia
naples or venice on-board the ship d'alesi envisioned a on-board the ship d'alesi envisioned a
truly multi-sensory truly multi-sensory truly multi-sensory
and circa 30 minute long experience and circa 30 minute long experience and circa 30 minute long experience
carefully staged and lit carefully staged and lit carefully staged and lit
with about up to 700 with about up to 700 with about up to 700
passengers on board passengers were able passengers on board passengers were able passengers on board passengers were able
to to to
walk around the upper deck or look down walk around the upper deck or look down walk around the upper deck or look down
at some scenery or even dine in a lower at some scenery or even dine in a lower at some scenery or even dine in a lower
deck deck deck
the boat experience simulated movement the boat experience simulated movement the boat experience simulated movement
in two ways in two ways in two ways
firstly the ship itself which was firstly the ship itself which was firstly the ship itself which was
essentially essentially essentially
set up as a simulated motion ride it was set up as a simulated motion ride it was set up as a simulated motion ride it was
supported by an iron frame that was set supported by an iron frame that was set supported by an iron frame that was set
in motion in motion in motion
by a hydraulic suspension system that by a hydraulic suspension system that by a hydraulic suspension system that
was able to simulate was able to simulate was able to simulate
the rolling up vessel from one side to the rolling up vessel from one side to the rolling up vessel from one side to
the other and allowed the ship to engage the other and allowed the ship to engage the other and allowed the ship to engage
in a pitching movement in a pitching movement in a pitching movement
secondly the ship was enclosed with secondly the ship was enclosed with secondly the ship was enclosed with
enormous moving panoramic paintings on enormous moving panoramic paintings on enormous moving panoramic paintings on
each side each side each side
which simulated the moving from one which simulated the moving from one which simulated the moving from one
to the next city the canvases produced for this experience the canvases produced for this experience
were absolutely enormous were absolutely enormous were absolutely enormous
each of the paintings was 750 meters each of the paintings was 750 meters each of the paintings was 750 meters
long long long
and 13 meters high rolled up on four and 13 meters high rolled up on four and 13 meters high rolled up on four
gigantic cylinders standing upright at gigantic cylinders standing upright at gigantic cylinders standing upright at
the bow and stern of the vessel the bow and stern of the vessel the bow and stern of the vessel
it took a large team of painters about it took a large team of painters about it took a large team of painters about
eight months eight months eight months
to convert hugo d'alesi's sketches to convert hugo d'alesi's sketches to convert hugo d'alesi's sketches
onto both canvases an incredible onto both canvases an incredible onto both canvases an incredible
manual labor task the unwinding of these manual labor task the unwinding of these manual labor task the unwinding of these
large canvases created also a particular large canvases created also a particular large canvases created also a particular
technical challenge technical challenge technical challenge
i don't want to and don't have the time i don't want to and don't have the time i don't want to and don't have the time
to go to here into to go to here into to go to here into
every technical detail but as you every technical detail but as you every technical detail but as you
probably can gather from probably can gather from probably can gather from
the illustrations on the screen is that the illustrations on the screen is that the illustrations on the screen is that
the the the
system employed four big cylinders each system employed four big cylinders each system employed four big cylinders each
of which had a of which had a of which had a
center axle that was resting vertically center axle that was resting vertically center axle that was resting vertically
on a water tank allowing for the canvas on a water tank allowing for the canvas on a water tank allowing for the canvas
to be evenly stretched at all times hugo d'alesi used special effects such as hugo d'alesi used special effects such as
day day day
and night time simulations and and night time simulations and and night time simulations and
artificial sea breeze and smells artificial sea breeze and smells artificial sea breeze and smells
that could create a moving situation that could create a moving situation that could create a moving situation
rather than merely an rather than merely an rather than merely an
illusion of place and as if this would illusion of place and as if this would illusion of place and as if this would
not be enough the passengers were also not be enough the passengers were also not be enough the passengers were also
subjected to acoustic signals such as subjected to acoustic signals such as subjected to acoustic signals such as
sirens and bells as well as acting sirens and bells as well as acting sirens and bells as well as acting
of a crew that would be assisting of a crew that would be assisting of a crew that would be assisting
passengers for instance passengers for instance passengers for instance
during the reenactment of certain during the reenactment of certain during the reenactment of certain
maneuvers see here maneuvers see here maneuvers see here
on that these two images for instance on that these two images for instance on that these two images for instance
how the how the how the
picture of the chemin de fer plm picture of the chemin de fer plm picture of the chemin de fer plm
compares to the actual experience of the compares to the actual experience of the compares to the actual experience of the
maréorama i think you can see maréorama i think you can see maréorama i think you can see
a clear dialogue between his earlier a clear dialogue between his earlier a clear dialogue between his earlier
work and work work
and the maréorama experience the question is did this show pay the question is did this show pay
off for instance in financial terms off for instance in financial terms off for instance in financial terms
unfortunately not the maréorama unfortunately not the maréorama unfortunately not the maréorama
encountered encountered encountered
significant financial problems and significant financial problems and significant financial problems and
costly delays even before costly delays even before costly delays even before
it could open its door it's difficult to it could open its door it's difficult to it could open its door it's difficult to
ascertain how much money ascertain how much money ascertain how much money
the maréorama recuperated it attracted the maréorama recuperated it attracted the maréorama recuperated it attracted
still around still around still around
two hundred and seventy thousand two hundred and seventy thousand two hundred and seventy thousand
visitors which was probably visitors which was probably visitors which was probably
more than other attractions but the more than other attractions but the more than other attractions but the
estimated estimated estimated
the estimated income generated through the estimated income generated through the estimated income generated through
tickets tickets tickets
was probably less than half of the was probably less than half of the was probably less than half of the
estimated costs estimated costs estimated costs
of the construction so the whole of the construction so the whole of the construction so the whole
enterprise enterprise enterprise
ended in a financial disaster this ended in a financial disaster this ended in a financial disaster this
fantastic steamboat fantastic steamboat fantastic steamboat
and all the sort of paraphernalia and all the sort of paraphernalia and all the sort of paraphernalia
associated with this disappeared and we associated with this disappeared and we associated with this disappeared and we
can't even study can't even study can't even study
this device today and this this device today and this this device today and this
leads me to my third and final immersive experience the so-called immersive experience the so-called
cinéorama which is particularly close to cinéorama which is particularly close to cinéorama which is particularly close to
my mind because my mind because my mind because
it relates to cinema it relates to cinema it relates to cinema
the cinéorama was the cinéorama was the cinéorama was
thought about and devised and and thought about and devised and and thought about and devised and and
planned and realized by planned and realized by planned and realized by
raul grimoin-sanson he was known in raoul grimoin-sanson he was known in raoul grimoin-sanson he was known in
france as the france as the france as the
inventor of the so-called photoachygraphe inventor of the so-called photoachygraphe inventor of the so-called photoachygraphe a 35 millimeter camera projector that a 35 millimeter camera projector that
was patented in france was patented in france was patented in france
and which proved to be the greatest and which proved to be the greatest and which proved to be the greatest
commercial competition commercial competition commercial competition
in france to the lumiere cinematograph in france to the lumiere cinematograph in france to the lumiere cinematograph
he had the idea to create a simulated he had the idea to create a simulated he had the idea to create a simulated
air balloon ride air balloon ride air balloon ride
over paris and a number of other cities over paris and a number of other cities over paris and a number of other cities
using a cutting-edge cinematography and using a cutting-edge cinematography and using a cutting-edge cinematography and
projection technology how projection technology how projection technology how
did it come to this idea did it come to this idea did it come to this idea
well there's a bit of a context to this well there's a bit of a context to this well there's a bit of a context to this
because from the 1850s onwards because from the 1850s onwards because from the 1850s onwards
we can see a rise in the fascination of we can see a rise in the fascination of we can see a rise in the fascination of
an age-old dream an age-old dream an age-old dream
flying in france the engineering flying in france the engineering flying in france the engineering
inventor henri giffard became known inventor henri giffard became known inventor henri giffard became known
as one of the pioneers of passenger as one of the pioneers of passenger as one of the pioneers of passenger
carrying airships at the 1867 world fair carrying airships at the 1867 world fair carrying airships at the 1867 world fair
he exhibited a small air balloon which he exhibited a small air balloon which he exhibited a small air balloon which
was installed at the avenue de de suffren was installed at the avenue de suffren was installed at the avenue de suffren
in paris and later in paris and later in paris and later
in london and as part of the world in london and as part of the world in london and as part of the world
fair in 1878 he unveiled an attraction fair in 1878 he unveiled an attraction fair in 1878 he unveiled an attraction
at the tuilleries palace and you can see here at the tuilleries palace and you can see here at the tuilleries palace and you can see here
a picture on the screen a picture on the screen a picture on the screen
that balloon would ascend up to 500 that balloon would ascend up to 500 that balloon would ascend up to 500
meters above the city meters above the city meters above the city
and hoover there and take about 40 and hoover there and take about 40 and hoover there and take about 40
passengers with them passengers with them passengers with them
and with his expertise in and with his expertise in and with his expertise in
film projection technology and the film projection technology and the film projection technology and the
context that i've just shown you here context that i've just shown you here context that i've just shown you here
it's probably not too surprising anymore it's probably not too surprising anymore it's probably not too surprising anymore
that raul grimoin-sanson that raul grimoin-sanson that raul grimoin-sanson
came up with the idea to create a came up with the idea to create a came up with the idea to create a
spectacular panoramic show spectacular panoramic show spectacular panoramic show
at the exposition universelle intending to at the exposure universelle intending to at the exposition universelle intending to
simulate a hot simulate a hot simulate a hot
air balloon flight over paris and other air balloon flight over paris and other air balloon flight over paris and other
places places places
using his expertise he attempted to using his expertise he attempted to using his expertise he attempted to
build a revolutionary build a revolutionary build a revolutionary
360 degrees cinematic capture 360 degrees cinematic capture 360 degrees cinematic capture
and projection system instead of the and projection system instead of the and projection system instead of the
painstakingly produced static panorama painstakingly produced static panorama painstakingly produced static panorama
paintings that i've just shown you paintings that i've just shown you paintings that i've just shown you
earlier earlier earlier
you can imagine that this required you can imagine that this required you can imagine that this required
significant planning significant planning significant planning
a large amount of technological a large amount of technological a large amount of technological
innovation and significant finances innovation and significant finances innovation and significant finances
it took him about four years of it took him about four years of it took him about four years of
preparation before he started preparation before he started preparation before he started
building building building
the experience for the expo in 1900 there are a number of issues he had to overcome there are a number of issues he had to overcome
first of all first of all first of all
image capture grimoin-sanson had to find image capture grimoin-sanson had to find image capture grimoin-sanson had to find
a way to capture a way to capture a way to capture
360 degrees at the same time 360 degrees at the same time 360 degrees at the same time
he built the 360 degree camera system he built the 360 degree camera system he built the 360 degree camera system
capable of shooting capable of shooting capable of shooting
70 not 35 but 70 millimeter films 70 not 35 but 70 millimeter films 70 not 35 but 70 millimeter films
and that system consisted of 10 cameras and that system consisted of 10 cameras and that system consisted of 10 cameras
all mounted together all mounted together all mounted together
on a tall timber rack he took this camera on a tall timber rack he took this camera on a tall timber rack he took this camera
to different places in europe to different places in europe to different places in europe
i found some still images of shots in i found some still images of shots in i found some still images of shots in
barcelona and barcelona and barcelona and
in brussels and even he took the camera in brussels and even he took the camera in brussels and even he took the camera
allegedly to north africa allegedly to north africa allegedly to north africa
in this attempt and this photo what you in this attempt and this photo what you in this attempt and this photo what you
see on the screen we can see see on the screen we can see see on the screen we can see
his preparations for using the hot air his preparations for using the hot air his preparations for using the hot air
balloon to balloon to balloon to
to film with his synchronized to film with his synchronized to film with his synchronized
multi-camera 360 degrees multi-camera 360 degrees multi-camera 360 degrees
capture system for the first time in capture system for the first time in capture system for the first time in
paris the filming on location created a the filming on location created a
considerable amount of public attention considerable amount of public attention considerable amount of public attention
as you can imagine grimoin-sanson reports that around 15 000 people might grimoin-sanson reports that around 15 000 people might
be slightly exaggerated be slightly exaggerated be slightly exaggerated
amassed on the ground of the jardin des amassed on the ground of the jardin des tuileries amassed on the ground of the jardin des tuileries tuileries tuileries
on the 24th of april located what is now on the 24th of april located what is now on the 24th of april located what is now
the louvre museum and the the louvre museum and the the louvre museum and the
place de la concord to watch the rise place de la concord to watch the rise place de la concord to watch the rise
and hopefully later descent of the hot and hopefully later descent of the hot and hopefully later descent of the hot
air balloon air balloon air balloon
he and his team of seven people on board he and his team of seven people on board he and his team of seven people on board
in fact in fact in fact
dared to ascend into the parisian sky dared to ascend into the parisian sky dared to ascend into the parisian sky
and i should perhaps also mention that and i should perhaps also mention that and i should perhaps also mention that
unfortunately the enterprise didn't and unfortunately the enterprise didn't and unfortunately the enterprise didn't end
too friendly because he they had a too friendly because he they had a
bit of a rough landing bit of a rough landing bit of a rough landing
some people describe it as crash landing some people describe it as crash landing some people describe it as crash landing
in which some of this in which some of this in which some of this
expensive equipment was nearly destroyed expensive equipment was nearly destroyed expensive equipment was nearly destroyed
not to mention the possible injuries to not to mention the possible injuries to not to mention the possible injuries to
his helpers the virtual the virtual
journey inside the cinéorama meant journey inside the cinéorama meant journey inside the cinéorama meant
that the show uh that he needed to that the show uh that he needed to that the show uh that he needed to
simulate somehow the ascent simulate somehow the ascent simulate somehow the ascent
of the balloon over the city of paris of the balloon over the city of paris of the balloon over the city of paris
and then and then and then
obviously continue with the simulation obviously continue with the simulation obviously continue with the simulation
with several stopovers in the with several stopovers in the with several stopovers in the
aforementioned cities aforementioned cities aforementioned cities
which essentially would have resembled a which essentially would have resembled a which essentially would have resembled a
time compressed time compressed time compressed
virtual tour through europe and africa virtual tour through europe and africa virtual tour through europe and africa
an absolutely phenomenal an absolutely phenomenal an absolutely phenomenal
idea and this basically by capturing idea and this basically by capturing idea and this basically by capturing
real places the enterprise however real places the enterprise however real places the enterprise however
ended with a massive failure ended with a massive failure ended with a massive failure
how did you come to that how did you come to that how did you come to that
an audience up to 200 people strong an audience up to 200 people strong an audience up to 200 people strong
would have been positioned would have been positioned would have been positioned
in the center of the rotunda that you in the center of the rotunda that you in the center of the rotunda that you
can see here on the right hand side of can see here on the right hand side of can see here on the right hand side of
the screen the screen the screen
on an elevated platform that could be on an elevated platform that could be on an elevated platform that could be
reached by a small staircase which reached by a small staircase which reached by a small staircase which
recently assembled the underside of the recently assembled the underside of the recently assembled the underside of the
whole air balloon whole air balloon whole air balloon
the projection of the image was the projection of the image was the projection of the image was
apparently remarkably good apparently remarkably good apparently remarkably good
meaning that the panoramic images meaning that the panoramic images meaning that the panoramic images
projected onto the rotunda wall which projected onto the rotunda wall which projected onto the rotunda wall which
in itself was about 100 meters long in itself was about 100 meters long in itself was about 100 meters long
was bright enough and relatively was bright enough and relatively was bright enough and relatively
seamless seamless seamless
so we couldn't see many of the stitching so we couldn't see many of the stitching so we couldn't see many of the stitching
lines however there was another big lines however there was another big lines however there was another big
problem the exhibition was well publicized and the exhibition was well publicized and
very popular with the crowds very popular with the crowds very popular with the crowds
let's recall however again the incident let's recall however again the incident let's recall however again the incident
at the bazar de la charite that i at the bazar de la charite that i at the bazar de la charite that i
mentioned earlier mentioned earlier mentioned earlier
the cinéorama was closed by the the cinéorama was closed by the the cinéorama was closed by the
authorities authorities authorities
after only a couple of screenings after only a couple of screenings after only a couple of screenings
because of because of because of
bad air conditioning bad air quality and bad air conditioning bad air quality and bad air conditioning bad air quality and
the ensuing risk of fire the ensuing risk of fire the ensuing risk of fire
how did it come to that you probably can how did it come to that you probably can how did it come to that you probably can
can guess can guess can guess
imagine up to three men who were needed imagine up to three men who were needed imagine up to three men who were needed
in a tiny projection booth in a tiny projection booth in a tiny projection booth
underneath the sort of gondola underneath the sort of gondola underneath the sort of gondola
to supervise the projection the 10 to supervise the projection the 10 to supervise the projection the 10
electric projectors electric projectors electric projectors
each powered with 40 ampere each powered with 40 ampere each powered with 40 ampere
bulbs emitted such an intense heat bulbs emitted such an intense heat bulbs emitted such an intense heat
that the health and safety for the that the health and safety for the that the health and safety for the
projectionists projectionists projectionists
as well as the many visitors above could as well as the many visitors above could as well as the many visitors above could
not be not be not be
guaranteed please at this point also guaranteed please at this point also guaranteed please at this point also
consider consider consider
the large amounts of 70 millimeter the large amounts of 70 millimeter the large amounts of 70 millimeter
flammable nitrate film flammable nitrate film flammable nitrate film
of the reels that were being used so the of the reels that were being used so the of the reels that were being used so the
whole whole whole
enterprise once again ended in a enterprise once again ended in a enterprise once again ended in a
phenomenal financial disaster phenomenal financial disaster phenomenal financial disaster
and it ended up properly for him as a and it ended up properly for him as a and it ended up properly for him as a
disaster disaster disaster
and his investors despite the fact however that the despite the fact however that the
realization of the cinéorama was realization of the cinéorama was realization of the cinéorama was
sketchy and unexpectedly short sketchy and unexpectedly short sketchy and unexpectedly short
he was successful with perhaps one of he was successful with perhaps one of he was successful with perhaps one of
his intentions his intentions his intentions
and that is to stimulate our imagination and that is to stimulate our imagination and that is to stimulate our imagination
to capture to capture to capture
and see the world with unprecedented and see the world with unprecedented and see the world with unprecedented
eyes and in unprecedented ways eyes and in unprecedented ways eyes and in unprecedented ways
his work is inspirational his work is inspirational his work is inspirational
i was certainly inspired particularly i was certainly inspired particularly i was certainly inspired particularly
after i was able to locate and see the after i was able to locate and see the after i was able to locate and see the
original 360 degrees original 360 degrees original 360 degrees
camera in paris camera in paris camera in paris
and you can see it here on the screen and you can see it here on the screen and you can see it here on the screen
grimoin-sanson undoubtedly contributed grimoin-sanson undoubtedly contributed grimoin-sanson undoubtedly contributed
but i believe to the technical but i believe to the technical but i believe to the technical
development of motion pictures development of motion pictures development of motion pictures
there's some academic debate about this there's some academic debate about this there's some academic debate about this
but i think it's clear but i think it's clear but i think it's clear
what we see here or what he has what we see here or what he has what we see here or what he has
demonstrated essentially is demonstrated essentially is demonstrated essentially is
an early idea of an imax cinema and in an early idea of an imax cinema and in an early idea of an imax cinema and in
fact the device fact the device fact the device
that you see here on the screen that is that you see here on the screen that is that you see here on the screen that is
the direct predecessor of some of the direct predecessor of some of the direct predecessor of some of
today's 360 degrees today's 360 degrees today's 360 degrees
digital cameras array was actually digital cameras array was actually digital cameras array was actually
technologically in terms of resolution technologically in terms of resolution technologically in terms of resolution
quite superior to things that we would quite superior to things that we would quite superior to things that we would
be using today be using today be using today
the difference between the hundred and the difference between the hundred and the difference between the hundred and
twenty years here is that twenty years here is that twenty years here is that
grimoin-sanson's analog 70 grimoin-sanson's analog 70 grimoin-sanson's analog 70
millimeter film millimeter film millimeter film
cameras have delivered an estimated cameras have delivered an estimated cameras have delivered an estimated
equivalent of around 320 megapixel for equivalent of around 320 megapixel for equivalent of around 320 megapixel for
each of the 10 cameras and as such would each of the 10 cameras and as such would each of the 10 cameras and as such would
have delivered a vastly higher have delivered a vastly higher have delivered a vastly higher
resolution than even the very best resolution than even the very best resolution than even the very best
of the 360 digital cameras that we can of the 360 digital cameras that we can of the 360 digital cameras that we can
buy today and that brings me slowly to an end of and that brings me slowly to an end of
my talk my talk my talk
and perhaps some brief notes about and perhaps some brief notes about and perhaps some brief notes about
potential lessons that we can learn from potential lessons that we can learn from potential lessons that we can learn from
these three examples these three examples these three examples
i think when it comes to innovation we i think when it comes to innovation we i think when it comes to innovation we
should should should
not forget that thinking big should be an not forget that thinking big should be an not forget that thinking big should be an
important part of it and that risk taking is an important factor risk taking is an important factor
without risk taking there is probably no without risk taking there is probably no without risk taking there is probably no
real innovation real innovation real innovation
it also needs quite a bit of an it also needs quite a bit of an it also needs quite a bit of an
entrepreneurial spirit entrepreneurial spirit entrepreneurial spirit
one has to be opportunistic one has to be opportunistic one has to be opportunistic
seek the opportunity seek the opportunity seek the opportunity
i guess at times even be single-minded i guess at times even be single-minded i guess at times even be single-minded
but most importantly for me the lesson but most importantly for me the lesson but most importantly for me the lesson
that i learned and certainly with the that i learned and certainly with the that i learned and certainly with the
work that i do is that we should not be work that i do is that we should not be work that i do is that we should not be
limited by limited by limited by
technological boundaries that's the last technological boundaries that's the last technological boundaries that's the last
of my concerns of my concerns of my concerns
so what holds the future of immersive so what holds the future of immersive so what holds the future of immersive
experiences well my guess is that the work of teamlab well my guess is that the work of teamlab and other groups that are operating in and other groups that are operating in
this this this
field will continue to be rather popular field will continue to be rather popular field will continue to be rather popular
our fascination for simulated our fascination for simulated our fascination for simulated
environments and simulated digital environments and simulated digital environments and simulated digital
environments probably will further grow environments probably will further grow environments probably will further grow
we seem to enjoy being immersed in we seem to enjoy being immersed in we seem to enjoy being immersed in
digital worlds i think we also need to remember that i think we also need to remember that
there's a tremendous economic there's a tremendous economic there's a tremendous economic
factor attached to all of this and that factor attached to all of this and that factor attached to all of this and that
makes me believe that in the future we makes me believe that in the future we makes me believe that in the future we
will be seeing will be seeing will be seeing
more of such installation works and more more of such installation works and more more of such installation works and more
developments on that front when it comes to architecture and cities when it comes to architecture and cities
i think we will also see i think we will also see i think we will also see
some type of immersive experiences some type of immersive experiences some type of immersive experiences
leaving the confined space of leaving the confined space of leaving the confined space of
the warehouses and art galleries where the warehouses and art galleries where the warehouses and art galleries where
they're currently housed they're currently housed they're currently housed
and these immersive experiences probably and these immersive experiences probably and these immersive experiences probably
will begin to will begin to will begin to
in one form or another spill out in one form or another spill out in one form or another spill out
into the urban realm into the urban realm into the urban realm
we'll be seeing hybrid real-time we'll be seeing hybrid real-time we'll be seeing hybrid real-time
location-based experiences location-based experiences location-based experiences
some of which perhaps will require some of which perhaps will require some of which perhaps will require
little from us perhaps little from us perhaps little from us perhaps
nothing more than just to be a passive nothing more than just to be a passive nothing more than just to be a passive
consumer of sophisticated digitally consumer of sophisticated digitally consumer of sophisticated digitally
enhanced enhanced enhanced
location-based experiences whether that location-based experiences whether that location-based experiences whether that
is good is good is good
or bad again you decide or bad again you decide or bad again you decide
and last but not least i expect to see and last but not least i expect to see and last but not least i expect to see
perhaps in the future even more perhaps in the future even more perhaps in the future even more artistic and probably more story-led artistic and probably more story-led
experiences that are perhaps experiences that are perhaps experiences that are perhaps
more intimate in more intimate in more intimate in
in nature that don't necessarily have to in nature that don't necessarily have to in nature that don't necessarily have to
rely on rely on rely on
20 or 25 000 people at one time 20 or 25 000 people at one time 20 or 25 000 people at one time
and in fact perhaps some of them will be and in fact perhaps some of them will be and in fact perhaps some of them will be
looking like looking like looking like
the experience that i'm currently the experience that i'm currently the experience that i'm currently
working with aardman animations and the working with aardman animations and the working with aardman animations and the
shanghai theater shanghai theater shanghai theater
academy and other partners for an academy and other partners for an academy and other partners for an
immersive experience in shanghai immersive experience in shanghai immersive experience in shanghai
and i would like to thank you and i would like to thank you and i would like to thank you
very much for your attention very much for your attention very much for your attention
and this marks hopefully a good point of and this marks hopefully a good point of and this marks hopefully a good point of
transition transition transition
to the q&a session and to ngaio to the q&a session and to ngaio to the q&a session and to ngaio
gav and roz and i'm passing over to gav and roz and i'm passing over to gav and roz and i'm passing over to
peter peter peter
who will introduce some of our panel who will introduce some of our panel who will introduce some of our panel
guests thank you very much guests thank you very much guests thank you very much
brilliant brilliant thank you so much brilliant brilliant thank you so much brilliant brilliant thank you so much
richard my head is spinning richard my head is spinning richard my head is spinning
a little bit um here these three a little bit um here these three a little bit um here these three
examples so examples so examples so
um what we're going to do next is we're um what we're going to do next is we're um what we're going to do next is we're
going to move into a a panel discussion going to move into a a panel discussion going to move into a a panel discussion
as richard as richard as richard
um said and and welcome gav really good um said and and welcome gav really good um said and and welcome gav really good
to have you here glad you could glad you to have you here glad you could glad you to have you here glad you could glad you
could make it could make it could make it
so what i'm going to do is i'm going to so what i'm going to do is i'm going to so what i'm going to do is i'm going to
introduce our three panelists and i'm introduce our three panelists and i'm introduce our three panelists and i'm
going to hand over to richard going to hand over to richard going to hand over to richard
who has i think a question for each of who has i think a question for each of who has i think a question for each of
each of them to get get started so each of them to get get started so each of them to get get started so
the audience may want to take this the audience may want to take this the audience may want to take this
opportunity to start um adding some opportunity to start um adding some opportunity to start um adding some
questions to the the q a section questions to the the q a section questions to the the q a section
um and you can put things in the chat as um and you can put things in the chat as um and you can put things in the chat as
well so well so well so
some introductions um we have with us some introductions um we have with us some introductions um we have with us
here today i'm really pleased to have um here today i'm really pleased to have um here today i'm really pleased to have um
uh gavin strange uh gavin strange uh gavin strange
um who will get the first question from um who will get the first question from um who will get the first question from
richard gavin is a richard gavin is a richard gavin is a
director and designer at the uk's uh director and designer at the uk's uh director and designer at the uk's uh
beloved creative studio aardman beloved creative studio aardman beloved creative studio aardman
animations animations animations
he's been working at aardman for over a he's been working at aardman for over a he's been working at aardman for over a
decade and his creative output ranges decade and his creative output ranges decade and his creative output ranges
from title sequences for the off from title sequences for the off from title sequences for the off
festival festival festival
and shaun the sheep feature film to and shaun the sheep feature film to and shaun the sheep feature film to
channel idents for bbc two channel idents for bbc two channel idents for bbc two
and christmas films for fortnum and and christmas films for fortnum and and christmas films for fortnum and
mason most recently recently he directed mason most recently recently he directed mason most recently recently he directed
the multi-award-winning turtle journey the multi-award-winning turtle journey the multi-award-winning turtle journey
an emotional impactful stop frame short an emotional impactful stop frame short an emotional impactful stop frame short
film for greenpeace film for greenpeace film for greenpeace
about the plight of the oceans his work about the plight of the oceans his work about the plight of the oceans his work
is diverse in nature but all held is diverse in nature but all held is diverse in nature but all held
together together together
by a common thread of fun and high by a common thread of fun and high by a common thread of fun and high
energy by night he goes under the alias energy by night he goes under the alias energy by night he goes under the alias
of jam factory indulging in all manner of jam factory indulging in all manner of jam factory indulging in all manner
of passion projects from filmmaking to of passion projects from filmmaking to of passion projects from filmmaking to
illustration toy design to photography illustration toy design to photography illustration toy design to photography
and even making music under the moniker and even making music under the moniker and even making music under the moniker
of project toy of project toy of project toy
gavin is a keynote speaker and has gavin is a keynote speaker and has gavin is a keynote speaker and has
spoken around the world from mexico to spoken around the world from mexico to spoken around the world from mexico to
manchester manchester manchester
the middle east to munich in 2016 after the middle east to munich in 2016 after the middle east to munich in 2016 after
speaking at the prestigious do lectures speaking at the prestigious do lectures speaking at the prestigious do lectures
he wrote the book do fly a motivational he wrote the book do fly a motivational he wrote the book do fly a motivational
mantra published by the due book co mantra published by the due book co mantra published by the due book co
and chronicle books nyo harding hill head of attractions and nyo harding hill head of attractions and
live experiences at aardman is live experiences at aardman is live experiences at aardman is
responsible for the strategic responsible for the strategic responsible for the strategic
development development development
and management of a portfolio of global and management of a portfolio of global and management of a portfolio of global
attractions exhibitions and live events attractions exhibitions and live events attractions exhibitions and live events
she's helped establish shaun the sheep as she's helped establish shaun the sheep as she's helped establish shaun the sheep as
a force in global branded family a force in global branded family a force in global branded family
entertainment entertainment entertainment
with a growing location-based with a growing location-based with a growing location-based
entertainment business that continues to entertainment business that continues to entertainment business that continues to
expand the reach of aardman's iconic expand the reach of aardman's iconic expand the reach of aardman's iconic
film and tv properties film and tv properties film and tv properties
under her guidance the company has under her guidance the company has under her guidance the company has
recently opened attractions in japan and recently opened attractions in japan and recently opened attractions in japan and
the uk the uk the uk
adding to aardman's portfolio that adding to aardman's portfolio that adding to aardman's portfolio that
includes attractions in sweden and includes attractions in sweden and includes attractions in sweden and
australia australia australia
international touring exhibitions global international touring exhibitions global international touring exhibitions global
touring stage shows and an international touring stage shows and an international touring stage shows and an international
program of live events throughout europe program of live events throughout europe program of live events throughout europe
the middle east southeast asia japan the middle east southeast asia japan the middle east southeast asia japan
china and australia china and australia china and australia
upcoming projects include new attraction upcoming projects include new attraction upcoming projects include new attraction
launches in japan launches in japan launches in japan
a north american touring exhibition and a north american touring exhibition and a north american touring exhibition and
a new global a new global a new global
shaun the sheep circus show and then shaun the sheep circus show and then shaun the sheep circus show and then
finally finally finally
we have with us ross coleman producer we have with us ross coleman producer we have with us ross coleman producer
punch drunk who has a long record of punch drunk who has a long record of punch drunk who has a long record of
producing producing producing
immersive works in theaters old immersive works in theaters old immersive works in theaters old
television studios television studios television studios
derelict office blocks forests beaches derelict office blocks forests beaches derelict office blocks forests beaches
parks and gardens cemeteries streets car parks and gardens cemeteries streets car parks and gardens cemeteries streets car
parks parks parks
cathedrals spiegel tents schools war cathedrals spiegel tents schools war cathedrals spiegel tents schools war
memorials hotels memorials hotels memorials hotels
shipping containers town squares nature shipping containers town squares nature shipping containers town squares nature
reserves reserves reserves
caves basements people's living rooms a caves basements people's living rooms a caves basements people's living rooms a
small small small
animal hospital up a mountain on the animal hospital up a mountain on the animal hospital up a mountain on the
roof of the royal festival hall roof of the royal festival hall roof of the royal festival hall
and underneath the world's largest disco and underneath the world's largest disco and underneath the world's largest disco
ball ball ball
she's a founding member of immersive art she's a founding member of immersive art she's a founding member of immersive art
collective and five-star sell-out show collective and five-star sell-out show collective and five-star sell-out show
klein house has been an associate klein house has been an associate klein house has been an associate
director of circa director of circa director of circa
and worked alongside international and worked alongside international and worked alongside international
greats such as robert wilson greats such as robert wilson greats such as robert wilson
graz ciel royal deluxe artichoke meow graz ciel royal deluxe artichoke meow graz ciel royal deluxe artichoke meow
meow meow meow
and e faggiolini she now produces for and e faggiolini she now produces for and e faggiolini she now produces for
punch drunk punch drunk punch drunk
having run their globally renowned having run their globally renowned having run their globally renowned
production sleep no more in shanghai for production sleep no more in shanghai for production sleep no more in shanghai for
three years three years three years
she returned to london to deliver an r d she returned to london to deliver an r d she returned to london to deliver an r d
program program program
as part of ukraine's audiences of the as part of ukraine's audiences of the as part of ukraine's audiences of the
future program future program future program
as you can imagine we are really as you can imagine we are really as you can imagine we are really
delighted to have all of them here with delighted to have all of them here with delighted to have all of them here with
us today and i'll hand over to us today and i'll hand over to us today and i'll hand over to
uh richard now to get us started yes i uh richard now to get us started yes i uh richard now to get us started yes i
i'm i'm very delighted as well thank you i'm i'm very delighted as well thank you i'm i'm very delighted as well thank you
so much so much so much
guff you're working on um at the moment guff you're working on um at the moment guff you're working on um at the moment
on an immersive experience in on an immersive experience in on an immersive experience in
in shanghai um what's so innovative in shanghai um what's so innovative in shanghai um what's so innovative
about it can you can you tell us more about it can you can you tell us more about it can you can you tell us more
about it what are you doing about it what are you doing about it what are you doing
yeah sure obviously richard you know you yeah sure obviously richard you know you yeah sure obviously richard you know you
know very well know very well know very well
what we're up to at the minute um so what we're up to at the minute um so what we're up to at the minute um so
first of all hello everyone it's really first of all hello everyone it's really first of all hello everyone it's really
lovely to be here and i'm so sorry i lovely to be here and i'm so sorry i lovely to be here and i'm so sorry i
wrote such a long biography i should wrote such a long biography i should wrote such a long biography i should
have just kept it to one sentence have just kept it to one sentence have just kept it to one sentence
shouldn't i shouldn't i shouldn't i
um so what we're doing is we're using um so what we're doing is we're using um so what we're doing is we're using
one of oddman's famous ips one of oddman's famous ips one of oddman's famous ips
and we're we're in short making and we're we're in short making and we're we're in short making
immersive interactive experience but immersive interactive experience but immersive interactive experience but
you know there's obviously lots and lots you know there's obviously lots and lots you know there's obviously lots and lots
of beautiful work of beautiful work of beautiful work
out there immersive installations and out there immersive installations and out there immersive installations and
things where things where things where
you know you it is a beautiful sensory you know you it is a beautiful sensory you know you it is a beautiful sensory
overload and you're overload and you're overload and you're
immersed in this physical space but what immersed in this physical space but what immersed in this physical space but what
we're trying to do we're trying to do we're trying to do
with what we're up to is to try and with what we're up to is to try and with what we're up to is to try and
weave in weave in weave in
a narrative in there as as well a narrative in there as as well a narrative in there as as well
um but at the same time it be a um but at the same time it be a um but at the same time it be a
narrative that is both linear and narrative that is both linear and narrative that is both linear and
non-linear non-linear non-linear
and also understandable by families of and also understandable by families of and also understandable by families of
all ages you know all ages you know all ages you know
um aardman's um a real um um aardman's um a real um um aardman's um a real um
family focused company and you know we family focused company and you know we family focused company and you know we
really try and make work for everyone really try and make work for everyone really try and make work for everyone
so you know we're trying to make this so you know we're trying to make this so you know we're trying to make this
thing as inclusive as possible thing as inclusive as possible thing as inclusive as possible
um the way i describe it to people is um the way i describe it to people is um the way i describe it to people is
we're sort of making a video game we're sort of making a video game we're sort of making a video game
meets a tv episode meets an art meets a tv episode meets an art meets a tv episode meets an art
installation installation installation
because i genuinely believe it's got because i genuinely believe it's got because i genuinely believe it's got
different aspects and elements of all of different aspects and elements of all of different aspects and elements of all of
these different things and these different things and these different things and
and in one moment we want to wow people and in one moment we want to wow people and in one moment we want to wow people
and we want to make people and we want to make people and we want to make people
laugh by seeing our characters play out laugh by seeing our characters play out laugh by seeing our characters play out
a funny situation a funny situation a funny situation
but then in the next moment we might but then in the next moment we might but then in the next moment we might
want the audience to feel want the audience to feel want the audience to feel
like they have a real um connection with like they have a real um connection with like they have a real um connection with
these characters they are there with these characters they are there with these characters they are there with
them them them
it's not passive viewing it is they can it's not passive viewing it is they can it's not passive viewing it is they can
change the outcome of what they're change the outcome of what they're change the outcome of what they're
seeing seeing seeing
and then in the next you know moment we and then in the next you know moment we and then in the next you know moment we
might want to just might want to just might want to just
absolutely wow them and to sort of absolutely wow them and to sort of absolutely wow them and to sort of
transport them and to sort of have that transport them and to sort of have that transport them and to sort of have that
almost out of body experience where they almost out of body experience where they almost out of body experience where they
just feel just feel just feel
like ah they've totally forgotten about like ah they've totally forgotten about like ah they've totally forgotten about
where they are and and that's where they are and and that's where they are and and that's
a big thing for us with our location it a big thing for us with our location it a big thing for us with our location it
being in shanghai being in shanghai being in shanghai
you know it will be in urban it will be you know it will be in urban it will be you know it will be in urban it will be
in urban china but what we're trying to in urban china but what we're trying to in urban china but what we're trying to
do in our space we're trying to really do in our space we're trying to really do in our space we're trying to really
sort of sort of sort of
make people sort of escape and it's set make people sort of escape and it's set make people sort of escape and it's set
in rural china so we in rural china so we in rural china so we
we kind of want them to step into this we kind of want them to step into this we kind of want them to step into this
box essentially with lots of high-tech box essentially with lots of high-tech box essentially with lots of high-tech
equipment equipment equipment
but for them to totally forget about but for them to totally forget about but for them to totally forget about
that and for that and for that and for
for it to just feel like an escape for for it to just feel like an escape for for it to just feel like an escape for
them so so it's new territory for us as them so so it's new territory for us as them so so it's new territory for us as
admin you know we've we've been making admin you know we've we've been making admin you know we've we've been making
um telling stories for 40 plus years um telling stories for 40 plus years um telling stories for 40 plus years
but this this is this is something new but this this is this is something new but this this is this is something new
and it's such an exciting challenge and and it's such an exciting challenge and and it's such an exciting challenge and
and it's crazy and it's complicated and and it's crazy and it's complicated and and it's crazy and it's complicated and
when you try and explain it when you try and explain it when you try and explain it
it takes ages and i love that i it takes ages and i love that i it takes ages and i love that i
absolutely love that as i'm a video game absolutely love that as i'm a video game absolutely love that as i'm a video game
you know fan i'm a narrative story fan you know fan i'm a narrative story fan you know fan i'm a narrative story fan
i'm a film fan so for me this is the i'm a film fan so for me this is the i'm a film fan so for me this is the
absolute dream project to work on absolute dream project to work on absolute dream project to work on
guf thank you very much that sounds guf thank you very much that sounds guf thank you very much that sounds
super exciting very entrepreneurial very super exciting very entrepreneurial very super exciting very entrepreneurial very
risk-taking risk-taking risk-taking
which leads me to ngaio ngaio which leads me to denial ngaio which leads me to denial ngaio
perhaps a little bit relating to my talk perhaps a little bit relating to my talk perhaps a little bit relating to my talk
that you probably saw you saw that you probably saw you saw that you probably saw you saw
the sort of level of commitment and the sort of level of commitment and the sort of level of commitment and
investment that was needed investment that was needed investment that was needed
sort of 100 years ago to put up some of sort of 100 years ago to put up some of sort of 100 years ago to put up some of
those more groundbreaking experiences those more groundbreaking experiences those more groundbreaking experiences
i wonder how this resonates for for i wonder how this resonates for for i wonder how this resonates for for
yourself as yourself as yourself as
looking after aardman's attraction to life looking after aardman's attraction to life looking after aardman's attraction to life
to experiences does this resonate with to experiences does this resonate with to experiences does this resonate with
some some some
of the things that are happening on of the things that are happening on of the things that are happening on
aardman's end aardman's end aardman's end
yes certainly thanks richard for an yes certainly thanks richard for an yes certainly thanks richard for an
amazing uh presentation amazing uh presentation amazing uh presentation
really inspiring and i think i noticed really inspiring and i think i noticed really inspiring and i think i noticed
someone in this chat kind of mentioned someone in this chat kind of mentioned someone in this chat kind of mentioned
the the the
the kind of circle of life that we have the kind of circle of life that we have the kind of circle of life that we have
it's incredible that's 120 years ago but it's incredible that's 120 years ago but it's incredible that's 120 years ago but
actually those experiences still actually those experiences still actually those experiences still
resonating with amazing things that are resonating with amazing things that are resonating with amazing things that are
happening today happening today happening today
um i mean from our point of view that um i mean from our point of view that um i mean from our point of view that
that sense of the unlimited opportunity that sense of the unlimited opportunity that sense of the unlimited opportunity
to push the boundaries i think that's to push the boundaries i think that's to push the boundaries i think that's
that's where we can kind of take our that's where we can kind of take our that's where we can kind of take our
characters and our brands is certainly characters and our brands is certainly characters and our brands is certainly
something that resonates at aardman something that resonates at aardman something that resonates at aardman
the sense of unlimited imagination the sense of unlimited imagination the sense of unlimited imagination
and also the spirit that kind of we have and also the spirit that kind of we have and also the spirit that kind of we have
this crazy this crazy this crazy
bonkers idea but there's a kind of bonkers idea but there's a kind of bonkers idea but there's a kind of
collective sense at aardman of of kind of collective sense at aardman of of kind of collective sense at aardman of of kind of
right so how can we make it happen right so how can we make it happen right so how can we make it happen
that everyone kind of engages with and that everyone kind of engages with and that everyone kind of engages with and
there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a
dedication and a perseverance and a dedication and a perseverance and a dedication and a perseverance and a
creative commitment creative commitment creative commitment
um to make everything we do exceptional um to make everything we do exceptional um to make everything we do exceptional
that's intrinsic to adam and animation that's intrinsic to adam and animation that's intrinsic to adam and animation
and then that kind of carries through to and then that kind of carries through to and then that kind of carries through to
everything else we do including our live everything else we do including our live everything else we do including our live
experiences and attractions experiences and attractions experiences and attractions
and across the company we always have and across the company we always have and across the company we always have
that appetite to that appetite to that appetite to
test the seemingly impossible and find test the seemingly impossible and find test the seemingly impossible and find
solutions solutions solutions
however we don't always have the um the however we don't always have the um the however we don't always have the um the
budget or the investment to do that budget or the investment to do that budget or the investment to do that
which is a big challenge and that's when which is a big challenge and that's when which is a big challenge and that's when
you really need to kind of dig you really need to kind of dig you really need to kind of dig
deeper to find the the kind of creative deeper to find the the kind of creative deeper to find the the kind of creative
and narrative solutions and narrative solutions and narrative solutions
to produce incredible immersive to produce incredible immersive to produce incredible immersive
experiences experiences experiences
when you don't have incredible budgets when you don't have incredible budgets when you don't have incredible budgets
available available available
i think that's again a super good i think that's again a super good i think that's again a super good
connection to roz because roz had the connection to roz because ross had the connection to roz because roz had the
pleasure of working on pleasure of working on pleasure of working on
very large productions and also very very large productions and also very very large productions and also very
small productions and i wanted to ask small productions and i wanted to ask small productions and i wanted to ask
you obviously i you obviously i you obviously i
i known you from having seen sleep no i known you from having seen sleep no i known you from having seen sleep no
More in shanghai which to me was a More in shanghai which to me was a More in shanghai which to me was a
life-changing life-changing life-changing
immersive experience i have to say immersive experience i have to say immersive experience i have to say
because it just gave me because it just gave me because it just gave me
so many more ideas about what theater is so many more ideas about what theater is so many more ideas about what theater is
and what it could be and and what it could be and and what it could be and
and how you can engage audiences in ways and how you can engage audiences in ways and how you can engage audiences in ways
that never thought about that never thought about that never thought about
and also how they would behave in ways and also how they would behave in ways and also how they would behave in ways
that i never thought about that i never thought about that i never thought about
so roz someone with your experience so roz someone with your experience so roz someone with your experience
what's your take on this what do you what's your take on this what do you what's your take on this what do you
think will the future of these immersive think will the future of these immersive think will the future of these immersive
entertainment experiences bring to us entertainment experiences bring to us entertainment experiences bring to us
thank you so much richard it's um been thank you so much richard it's um been thank you so much richard it's um been
amazing to see this amazing to see this amazing to see this
rich graphics throughout the whole of rich graphics throughout the whole of rich graphics throughout the whole of
the talk and to imagine the impossible the talk and to imagine the impossible the talk and to imagine the impossible
things being done from a kind of theater things being done from a kind of theater things being done from a kind of theater
perspective i don't wish to be at all perspective i don't wish to be at all perspective i don't wish to be at all
macabre but actually just hearing some macabre but actually just hearing some macabre but actually just hearing some
of the disasters of the disasters of the disasters
was really resonant in a lot of ways you was really resonant in a lot of ways you was really resonant in a lot of ways you
know the things that people are putting know the things that people are putting know the things that people are putting
on the line when they're on the line when they're on the line when they're
expecting to make these grand leaps um expecting to make these grand leaps um expecting to make these grand leaps um
of faith of faith of faith
into into the unknown and especially now into into the unknown and especially now into into the unknown and especially now
thinking about shanghai thinking about shanghai thinking about shanghai
talking from london it feels completely talking from london it feels completely talking from london it feels completely
impossible that sleep no more is still impossible that sleep no more is still impossible that sleep no more is still
running running running
in shanghai and the audiences are in shanghai and the audiences are in shanghai and the audiences are
experiencing that there experiencing that there experiencing that there
and i wonder kind of you know how this and i wonder kind of you know how this and i wonder kind of you know how this
lockdown has been an immersive lockdown has been an immersive lockdown has been an immersive
experience of sorts you know when we experience of sorts you know when we experience of sorts you know when we
come out into the world again come out into the world again come out into the world again
how that itself will also be immersive how that itself will also be immersive how that itself will also be immersive
and i think we'll get and i think we'll get and i think we'll get
really adept at talking about the really adept at talking about the really adept at talking about the
um soft magic that kind of crackles at um soft magic that kind of crackles at um soft magic that kind of crackles at
the edges of the edges of the edges of
some of these experiences but we'll also some of these experiences but we'll also some of these experiences but we'll also
be so excited just to be around one be so excited just to be around one be so excited just to be around one
another again i think the arts are gonna another again i think the arts are gonna another again i think the arts are gonna
have to make such a strong case for have to make such a strong case for have to make such a strong case for
themselves i mean with two themselves i mean with two themselves i mean with two
thirds of new york city's arts and thirds of new york city's arts and thirds of new york city's arts and
culture jobs now culture jobs now culture jobs now
uh disappeared essentially i think i saw uh disappeared essentially i think i saw uh disappeared essentially i think i saw
in a bloomberg article recently we're in a bloomberg article recently we're in a bloomberg article recently we're
gonna have to make such a strong case gonna have to make such a strong case gonna have to make such a strong case
uh yeah what we are presenting uh yeah what we are presenting uh yeah what we are presenting
as a sector and why we want to be the as a sector and why we want to be the as a sector and why we want to be the
reason why people are coming together reason why people are coming together reason why people are coming together
and i think there's going to be and i think there's going to be and i think there's going to be
gosh all manner of innovations from the gosh all manner of innovations from the gosh all manner of innovations from the
kind of technical digital perspective kind of technical digital perspective kind of technical digital perspective
through to through to through to
how are we going to be delicate and how are we going to be delicate and how are we going to be delicate and
intimate intimate intimate
again in a space i mean whether you're again in a space i mean whether you're again in a space i mean whether you're
putting on vr goggles ultimately you're putting on vr goggles ultimately you're putting on vr goggles ultimately you're
still going to need to sanitize them still going to need to sanitize them still going to need to sanitize them
you know how are we going to breathe you know how are we going to breathe you know how are we going to breathe
together in spaces again is it the bit together in spaces again is it the bit together in spaces again is it the bit
where your heart beats all come into mo where your heart beats all come into mo where your heart beats all come into mo
the same rhythm when you're watching an the same rhythm when you're watching an the same rhythm when you're watching an
orchestra orchestra orchestra
um and i think you know from a theater um and i think you know from a theater um and i think you know from a theater
perspective again like some of the most perspective again like some of the most perspective again like some of the most
immersive experiences i've ever had have immersive experiences i've ever had have immersive experiences i've ever had have
been in reading a book been in reading a book been in reading a book
so it's a really key question like what so it's a really key question like what so it's a really key question like what
are those stories that we're going to are those stories that we're going to are those stories that we're going to
want to tell want to tell want to tell
as we're coming back out and then what as we're coming back out and then what as we're coming back out and then what
are we going to do together to get the are we going to do together to get the are we going to do together to get the
resources to actually put those on resources to actually put those on resources to actually put those on
but i think the appetite for immersive but i think the appetite for immersive but i think the appetite for immersive
is greater than it's ever been is greater than it's ever been is greater than it's ever been
so yeah yes we'll get another one of so yeah yes we'll get another one of so yeah yes we'll get another one of
those great leaps up afterwards those great leaps up afterwards those great leaps up afterwards
yeah that's right so thank you roz yeah that's right so thank you roz yeah that's right so thank you roz
so i'm handing over to peter and i hope so i'm handing over to peter and i hope so i'm handing over to peter and i hope
the the the
the audience will post some questions in the audience will post some questions in the audience will post some questions in
the q&a the q&a the q&a
section yes indeed we are starting to section yes indeed we are starting to section yes indeed we are starting to
get some questions coming in get some questions coming in get some questions coming in
uh to the q&a so um i might go straight uh to the q&a so um i might go straight uh to the q&a so um i might go straight
there i mean i have a couple myself there i mean i have a couple myself there i mean i have a couple myself
as as well but um i'd like to go to the as as well but um i'd like to go to the as as well but um i'd like to go to the
the audience the audience the audience
uh first so the first question says it's uh first so the first question says it's uh first so the first question says it's
not a question per se but a comment but not a question per se but a comment but not a question per se but a comment but
i think it is a question and it's i think it is a question and it's i think it is a question and it's
probably a question for you richard probably a question for you richard probably a question for you richard
um as the as the architect i think there um as the as the architect i think there um as the as the architect i think there
might be something here about might be something here about might be something here about
um perhaps learning from las vegas or um perhaps learning from las vegas or um perhaps learning from las vegas or
something like that something like that something like that
have you been to las vegas is the have you been to las vegas is the have you been to las vegas is the
question um question um question um
they try to immerse you in parts of they try to immerse you in parts of they try to immerse you in parts of
europe in many places that have been europe in many places that have been europe in many places that have been
built there so it's kind of a question built there so it's kind of a question built there so it's kind of a question
about about about
simulation on the one hand but obviously simulation on the one hand but obviously simulation on the one hand but obviously
sensation as well so sensation as well so sensation as well so
talk to us a little bit about this in talk to us a little bit about this in talk to us a little bit about this in
terms of architecture specifically yes terms of architecture specifically yes terms of architecture specifically yes
yes learning from las vegas i think it's yes learning from las vegas i think it's yes learning from las vegas i think it's
a place that you should never leave out a place that you should never leave out a place that you should never leave out
of your sight of your sight of your sight
that's certainly true since venturi's that's certainly true since venturi's that's certainly true since venturi's
time time time
um yeah i have been to las vegas many um yeah i have been to las vegas many um yeah i have been to las vegas many
times i times i times i
lived for a while in oklahoma and you know las vegas is obviously an you know las vegas is obviously an
immersive experience and what it creates immersive experience and what it creates immersive experience and what it creates
are these spatial simulations are these spatial simulations are these spatial simulations
these sort of other places this sort of these sort of other places this sort of these sort of other places this sort of
um contradictory um contradictory um contradictory
narrative places sort of miniature narrative places sort of miniature narrative places sort of miniature
versions of paris and versions of paris and versions of paris and
and venice and other places and bellaggio and venice and other places and bellaggio and venice and other places and bellaggio
and so forth and so forth and so forth
and i think what we can learn from that and i think what we can learn from that and i think what we can learn from that
as architects is the importance of as architects is the importance of as architects is the importance of
narrative narrative narrative
and i think you see some of those and i think you see some of those and i think you see some of those
phenomena not just being isolated in phenomena not just being isolated in phenomena not just being isolated in
environmental bubbles like we environmental bubbles like we environmental bubbles like we
have in theme parks and to some extent have in theme parks and to some extent have in theme parks and to some extent
in in gambling towns like in las vegas in in gambling towns like in las vegas in in gambling towns like in las vegas
or macau or macau or macau
but to see these things also being but to see these things also being but to see these things also being
spilled out into the urban realm which spilled out into the urban realm which spilled out into the urban realm which
is what i alluded to earlier and is what i alluded to earlier and is what i alluded to earlier and
if you look for instance to china to to if you look for instance to china to to if you look for instance to china to to
a town called a town called a town called
thames town you would be finding a lot thames town you would be finding a lot thames town you would be finding a lot
of these narrative contradictions you'll of these narrative contradictions you'll of these narrative contradictions you'll
find a town where you have find a town where you have find a town where you have
a harry potter on a broomstick in the a harry potter on a broomstick in the a harry potter on a broomstick in the
middle of china you would have a middle of china you would have a middle of china you would have a
a typical red british phone booth there a typical red british phone booth there a typical red british phone booth there
and obviously and obviously and obviously
using that sort of borrowed cultural using that sort of borrowed cultural using that sort of borrowed cultural
context as a context as a context as a
meta narrative to attract visitors to meta narrative to attract visitors to meta narrative to attract visitors to
some extent but also and it's crucially some extent but also and it's crucially some extent but also and it's crucially
here here here
use this sort of approach as a use this sort of approach as a use this sort of approach as a
as a method to offer an inhabitable as a method to offer an inhabitable as a method to offer an inhabitable
place place place
and i think that's um that's that's and i think that's um that's that's and i think that's um that's that's
quite remarkable quite remarkable quite remarkable
las vegas by the way also has one of las vegas by the way also has one of las vegas by the way also has one of
those purpose designed those purpose designed those purpose designed
um immersive experiences by meowwolf um immersive experiences by meowwolf um immersive experiences by meowwolf
and again it's a company just as a teamlab and again it's a company just as a teamlab and again it's a company just as a steamlab
lab or artechouse and they're doing lab or artechouse and they're doing lab or artechouse and they're doing
very well very well very well
brilliant thanks richard um i'm going to brilliant thanks richard um i'm going to brilliant thanks richard um i'm going to
try to make my way through these uh try to make my way through these uh try to make my way through these uh
questions in in order but questions in in order but questions in in order but
one did catch my eye a bit further down one did catch my eye a bit further down one did catch my eye a bit further down
um and it um and it um and it
just reminded me of a little chat we had just reminded me of a little chat we had just reminded me of a little chat we had
in the green room beforehand in the green room beforehand in the green room beforehand
it's a question for for rosalind um it's a question for for rosalind um it's a question for for rosalind um
uh and you you know we know the uh and you you know we know the uh and you you know we know the
notoriously secretive um punch drunk so notoriously secretive um punch drunk so notoriously secretive um punch drunk so
i'm bound to i'm bound to i'm bound to
ask this this question ken and you've ask this this question ken and you've ask this this question ken and you've
started talking about it a little started talking about it a little started talking about it a little
already anyway um can you tell us already anyway um can you tell us already anyway um can you tell us
anything about the future for punch anything about the future for punch anything about the future for punch
drunk in terms of covet 19 drunk in terms of covet 19 drunk in terms of covet 19
and upcoming shows and upcoming shows and upcoming shows
i can try um as you say we uh i can try um as you say we uh i can try um as you say we uh
have a lot of works in production but we have a lot of works in production but we have a lot of works in production but we
do have some announced do have some announced do have some announced
um which is lovely to be able to share um which is lovely to be able to share um which is lovely to be able to share
that that that
we've recently just completed a series we've recently just completed a series we've recently just completed a series
the third day which was in partnership the third day which was in partnership the third day which was in partnership
with sky and hbo with sky and hbo with sky and hbo
starring uh jude law in starring uh jude law in starring uh jude law in
in which the the format of the of the tv in which the the format of the of the tv in which the the format of the of the tv
series was sort of stretched with a series was sort of stretched with a series was sort of stretched with a
12-hour live stream um right in the 12-hour live stream um right in the 12-hour live stream um right in the
middle middle middle
of the um of the full two seasons of of the um of the full two seasons of of the um of the full two seasons of
episodes episodes episodes
so that viewers could tune in and see an so that viewers could tune in and see an so that viewers could tune in and see an
extremely slowly moving drawn-out extremely slowly moving drawn-out extremely slowly moving drawn-out
performance performance performance
um happening live um happening live um happening live
on an island uh just off the southeast on an island uh just off the southeast on an island uh just off the southeast
coast coast coast
and so that's one forum that punch and so that's one forum that punch and so that's one forum that punch
trunks going into which it's not really trunks going into which it's not really trunks going into which it's not really
had a huge amount of experience in had a huge amount of experience in had a huge amount of experience in
before and is excited to explore further before and is excited to explore further before and is excited to explore further
um and also we've recently announced um um and also we've recently announced um um and also we've recently announced um
a forthcoming production with niantic a forthcoming production with niantic a forthcoming production with niantic
who are the makers of pokemon go so who are the makers of pokemon go so who are the makers of pokemon go so
using the using the using the
uh geo-locating um points of interest uh geo-locating um points of interest uh geo-locating um points of interest
technology technology technology
that powers the pokemon go engine um that powers the pokemon go engine um that powers the pokemon go engine um
punch punch punch
will be revealing something forthcoming will be revealing something forthcoming will be revealing something forthcoming
soon soon soon
and which you'll be able to keep an eye and which you'll be able to keep an eye and which you'll be able to keep an eye
out for and i think there's already a out for and i think there's already a out for and i think there's already a
couple of articles out about that so you couple of articles out about that so you couple of articles out about that so you
can google that quite easily can google that quite easily can google that quite easily
okay so nothing that's not in the public okay so nothing that's not in the public okay so nothing that's not in the public
domain revealed okay domain revealed okay domain revealed okay
good um uh we have a question here i good um uh we have a question here i good um uh we have a question here i
should be saying who the questions are should be saying who the questions are should be saying who the questions are
from so that was from dan mon from so that was from dan mon from so that was from dan mon
um there's a question here from howard um there's a question here from howard um there's a question here from howard
um griffin um griffin um griffin
um and again it's something that you've um and again it's something that you've um and again it's something that you've
started addressing as a panel has the started addressing as a panel has the started addressing as a panel has the
current covered world made you current covered world made you current covered world made you
re-evaluate the importance of immersive re-evaluate the importance of immersive re-evaluate the importance of immersive
experience for experience for experience for
home users um so i don't know if if gav home users um so i don't know if if gav home users um so i don't know if if gav
or niall wants to pick that up the covet or niall wants to pick that up the covet or niall wants to pick that up the covet
made you re-evaluate made you re-evaluate made you re-evaluate
immersive experience for home users um immersive experience for home users um immersive experience for home users um
yeah we've been involved in another yeah we've been involved in another yeah we've been involved in another
project through the um project through the um project through the um
ahrc called the big fix up which is ahrc called the big fix up which is ahrc called the big fix up which is
um it's a multi-platform experience um it's a multi-platform experience um it's a multi-platform experience
based around kind of you based around kind of you based around kind of you
ar it's a app-based experience but that ar it's a app-based experience but that ar it's a app-based experience but that
has a three-act has a three-act has a three-act
um series to it a three-act narrative um series to it a three-act narrative um series to it a three-act narrative
arc to it arc to it arc to it
so act one and two were kind of so act one and two were kind of so act one and two were kind of
app-based and and app-based and and app-based and and
kind of were acted out by people through kind of were acted out by people through kind of were acted out by people through
a series of kind of challenges and jobs a series of kind of challenges and jobs a series of kind of challenges and jobs
and and and
and elements that triggered ar and elements that triggered ar and elements that triggered ar
activations using our brand wallace and activations using our brand wallace and activations using our brand wallace and
gromit and our characters gromit and our characters gromit and our characters
um act three was going to be the um act three was going to be the um act three was going to be the
culmination which was a live event so it culmination which was a live event so it culmination which was a live event so it
would have been based in bristol as the would have been based in bristol as the would have been based in bristol as the
art as we're art as we're art as we're
based in bristol in the uk um and the based in bristol in the uk um and the based in bristol in the uk um and the
kind of kind of kind of
culmination would have happened in the culmination would have happened in the culmination would have happened in the
city where um city where um city where um
an amazing um scanning system by an amazing um scanning system by an amazing um scanning system by
phantasmo based in the us phantasmo based in the us phantasmo based in the us
scanned um kind of iconic iconic scanned um kind of iconic iconic scanned um kind of iconic iconic
buildings within the city buildings within the city buildings within the city
and people could walk around and and people could walk around and and people could walk around and
experience them in ar including a 40 experience them in ar including a 40 experience them in ar including a 40
meter high meter high meter high
um rogue lad which was the the kind of um rogue lad which was the the kind of um rogue lad which was the the kind of
the baddie of the story the baddie of the story the baddie of the story
um that had to pivot to become an um that had to pivot to become an um that had to pivot to become an
at-home experience at-home experience at-home experience
um luckily the ah um luckily the ah um luckily the ah
ukri did release some additional kind of ukri did release some additional kind of ukri did release some additional kind of
funding to make that a home funding to make that a home funding to make that a home
ar activation so you could do it in a ar activation so you could do it in a ar activation so you could do it in a
kind of scaled down version kind of scaled down version kind of scaled down version
on your desk in your garden in your on your desk in your garden in your on your desk in your garden in your
local park um local park um local park um
and then act i guess essentially act and then act i guess essentially act and then act i guess essentially act
four now will be a kind of a live four now will be a kind of a live four now will be a kind of a live
activation when we can kind of get activation when we can kind of get activation when we can kind of get
back out into the real world so um back out into the real world so um back out into the real world so um
that's probably the most relevant that's probably the most relevant that's probably the most relevant
example that i have thanks example that i have thanks example that i have thanks
thanks gav did you want to join in on thanks gav did you want to join in on thanks gav did you want to join in on
that that that
yeah i mean i would just just say that yeah i mean i would just just say that yeah i mean i would just just say that
you know especially for us at you know especially for us at you know especially for us at
aardman it's sort of there's aardman it's sort of there's aardman it's sort of there's
we've been doing a lot of this stuff for we've been doing a lot of this stuff for we've been doing a lot of this stuff for
a long time we've had an interactive a long time we've had an interactive a long time we've had an interactive
department for the last decade or so but department for the last decade or so but department for the last decade or so but
still still still
you know the technology surrounding all you know the technology surrounding all you know the technology surrounding all
of this it's all just so of this it's all just so of this it's all just so
new and exciting you kind of you can new and exciting you kind of you can new and exciting you kind of you can
never get comfortable anyway never get comfortable anyway never get comfortable anyway
right there's always a new tool there's right there's always a new tool there's right there's always a new tool there's
always a new system there's always a new always a new system there's always a new always a new system there's always a new
workflow workflow workflow
there's always something someone else there's always something someone else there's always something someone else
has done that you think no way they've has done that you think no way they've has done that you think no way they've
done it done it done it
like that so you kind i think always like that so you kind i think always like that so you kind i think always
sort of ready to spring into action sort of ready to spring into action sort of ready to spring into action
anyway anyway anyway
obviously kobe no one was ready for so obviously kobe no one was ready for so obviously kobe no one was ready for so
so that is so that is so that is
you know that is that is a real knock you know that is that is a real knock you know that is that is a real knock
back but it it feels quite nice to be back but it it feels quite nice to be back but it it feels quite nice to be
sort of um just ready to pivot actually sort of um just ready to pivot actually sort of um just ready to pivot actually
what nice what nice what nice
that pivot is a really good word that at that pivot is a really good word that at that pivot is a really good word that at
any moment any moment any moment
things may have to change and for me as things may have to change and for me as things may have to change and for me as
a director and a creative i a director and a creative i a director and a creative i
i like that actually i kind of thrive on i like that actually i kind of thrive on i like that actually i kind of thrive on
that so yeah it's it's you got that so yeah it's it's you got that so yeah it's it's you got
at the end of the day you've either got at the end of the day you've either got at the end of the day you've either got
to look at it positively or negatively to look at it positively or negatively to look at it positively or negatively
right right right
so positive it is and try and make so positive it is and try and make so positive it is and try and make
something work something work something work
great great thanks um we've got a great great thanks um we've got a great great thanks um we've got a
question here from question here from question here from
from mark which is again about the from mark which is again about the from mark which is again about the
moment when one pivots i guess because moment when one pivots i guess because moment when one pivots i guess because
it's a it's a question about shopping it's a it's a question about shopping it's a it's a question about shopping
centers centers centers
um he says which none of us are going um he says which none of us are going um he says which none of us are going
into into into
um do you think shopping centers can be um do you think shopping centers can be um do you think shopping centers can be
converted into huge converted into huge converted into huge
site-specific immersive spaces debenhams site-specific immersive spaces debenhams site-specific immersive spaces debenhams
is the surface of mars is the surface of mars is the surface of mars
and what is the potential size for this and what is the potential size for this and what is the potential size for this
this economy and it's a very interesting this economy and it's a very interesting this economy and it's a very interesting
question because those question because those question because those
spaces are abandoned and empty at the spaces are abandoned and empty at the spaces are abandoned and empty at the
moment um seems like everybody's in the moment um seems like everybody's in the moment um seems like everybody's in the
woods behind my woods behind my woods behind my
my house uh most of the time um these my house uh most of the time um these my house uh most of the time um these
days does anybody want to go in about days does anybody want to go in about days does anybody want to go in about
um sort of the use of commercial spaces um sort of the use of commercial spaces um sort of the use of commercial spaces
uh for immersive purposes uh for immersive purposes uh for immersive purposes
i think it has to happen essentially you i think it has to happen essentially you i think it has to happen essentially you
know i think know i think know i think
that that we were beginning to see you that that we were beginning to see you that that we were beginning to see you
know perhaps before know perhaps before know perhaps before
covid hit a kind of a shift in kind of covid hit a kind of a shift in kind of covid hit a kind of a shift in kind of
the the the
kind of landlord mentality instead of kind of landlord mentality instead of kind of landlord mentality instead of
just wanting kind of retail tenants they just wanting kind of retail tenants they just wanting kind of retail tenants they
were beginning to understand that to were beginning to understand that to were beginning to understand that to
compete against the online compete against the online compete against the online
kind of shopping um challenge or threat kind of shopping um challenge or threat kind of shopping um challenge or threat
depending on which side you're on depending on which side you're on depending on which side you're on
um that they would have to kind of um that they would have to kind of um that they would have to kind of
create experiences within retail centres create experiences within retail centres create experiences within retail centres
and i think covid has just and i think covid has just and i think covid has just
accelerated that even more um so a lot accelerated that even more um so a lot accelerated that even more um so a lot
of the conversations we're hearing now of the conversations we're hearing now of the conversations we're hearing now
are about how those retail spaces can be are about how those retail spaces can be are about how those retail spaces can be
turned into experiences that would drive turned into experiences that would drive turned into experiences that would drive
people people people
kind of intertwined centres or even into kind of intertwined centres or even into kind of intertwined centres or even into
kind of retail you know miles on the kind of retail you know miles on the kind of retail you know miles on the
edge of time edge of time edge of time
to get them shopping in physical shops to get them shopping in physical shops to get them shopping in physical shops
and eating in restaurants and and eating in restaurants and and eating in restaurants and
yeah experiencing life i think richard yeah experiencing life i think richard yeah experiencing life i think richard
wants to come in on this as well wants to come in on this as well wants to come in on this as well
yeah i mean there's obviously obviously yeah i mean there's obviously obviously yeah i mean there's obviously obviously
cities will cities will cities will
think now very fast and hard how the think now very fast and hard how the think now very fast and hard how the
main high street will um main high street will um main high street will um
[Music] [Music] [Music]
recuperate from that sort of experience recuperate from that sort of experience recuperate from that sort of experience
that we just had over the past year that we just had over the past year that we just had over the past year
um shopping centers um shopping centers um shopping centers
i found it interesting to find out when i found it interesting to find out when i found it interesting to find out when
i was doing some work in i was doing some work in i was doing some work in
in china and shanghai is that there's a in china and shanghai is that there's a in china and shanghai is that there's a
term for term for term for
entertainment experiences in shopping entertainment experiences in shopping entertainment experiences in shopping
centers they call it centers they call it centers they call it
urban entertainment centers so this urban entertainment centers so this urban entertainment centers so this
notion of notion of notion of
linking shopping in a mall to linking shopping in a mall to linking shopping in a mall to
entertainment entertainment entertainment
is not new at all certainly not in the is not new at all certainly not in the is not new at all certainly not in the
in the south asian context in the south asian context in the south asian context
and i wouldn't be surprised we would be and i wouldn't be surprised we would be and i wouldn't be surprised we would be
seeing more seeing more seeing more
on that front in in our context as well on that front in in our context as well on that front in in our context as well
particularly obviously with regards to particularly obviously with regards to particularly obviously with regards to
the the the sort of pressures on the the the the sort of pressures on the the the the sort of pressures on the
which the high street is suffering at which the high street is suffering at which the high street is suffering at
the moment the moment the moment
okay um richard we've got a slightly okay um richard we've got a slightly okay um richard we've got a slightly
more more more
uh critical question here in uh critical question here in uh critical question here in
relationship to architecture citing relationship to architecture citing relationship to architecture citing
um the riba president simon alford um the riba president simon alford um the riba president simon alford
okay it says that simon alford okay it says that simon alford okay it says that simon alford
challenges the use of vr challenges the use of vr challenges the use of vr
in the design stages of architecture in the design stages of architecture in the design stages of architecture
saying it reduces architecture to image saying it reduces architecture to image saying it reduces architecture to image
and leaves it devoid of real-life and leaves it devoid of real-life and leaves it devoid of real-life
surprise and mystery surprise and mystery surprise and mystery
so this is from j cruz who says my so this is from j cruz who says my so this is from j cruz who says my
question therefore is how does the panel question therefore is how does the panel question therefore is how does the panel
distinguish the use of vr for pure distinguish the use of vr for pure distinguish the use of vr for pure
entertainment entertainment entertainment
and for the assistance and design as it and for the assistance and design as it and for the assistance and design as it
is widely is widely is widely
used i think it's a super good question used i think it's a super good question used i think it's a super good question
because it's critical and because it's because it's critical and because it's because it's critical and because it's
architectural we have to talk about this architectural we have to talk about this architectural we have to talk about this
thing so thing so thing so
it's good that we asking these questions it's good that we asking these questions it's good that we asking these questions
and i'm glad that these questions and i'm glad that these questions and i'm glad that these questions
are being addressed and being asked by are being addressed and being asked by are being addressed and being asked by
the president of the riba and the president of the riba and the president of the riba and
unfortunately i don't necessarily unfortunately i don't necessarily unfortunately i don't necessarily
agree with with simon agree with with simon agree with with simon
from the riba um and i think i would love from the riba um and i think i would love from the riba um and i think i would love
to have a conversation with him about it to have a conversation with him about it to have a conversation with him about it
but i would say to him probably as a but i would say to him probably as a but i would say to him probably as a
user of vr technology as part of a user of vr technology as part of a user of vr technology as part of a
design design design
process where you can now immerse process where you can now immerse process where you can now immerse
yourself yourself yourself
inside space and design within the inside space and design within the inside space and design within the
virtual world virtual world virtual world
that this to me has um that this to me has um that this to me has um
much less to do with image than perhaps much less to do with image than perhaps much less to do with image than perhaps
some other forms of entertainment that some other forms of entertainment that some other forms of entertainment that
he refers to or sort of a gaming he refers to or sort of a gaming he refers to or sort of a gaming
technology for instance and i can technology for instance and i can technology for instance and i can
explain that a little bit explain that a little bit explain that a little bit
because i think we we had similar because i think we we had similar because i think we we had similar
conversations conversations conversations
in the architectural world when we in the architectural world when we in the architectural world when we
introduced uh introduced uh introduced uh
autocad and other sort of um digital autocad and other sort of um digital autocad and other sort of um digital
drawing programs in the architecture drawing programs in the architecture drawing programs in the architecture
profession profession profession
and i think the big criticism that i and i think the big criticism that i and i think the big criticism that i
have is that have is that have is that
these tools and techniques often these tools and techniques often these tools and techniques often
take away a sense of scale for instance take away a sense of scale for instance take away a sense of scale for instance
they take away our sense of they take away our sense of they take away our sense of
understanding the relationship between understanding the relationship between understanding the relationship between
the drawing and and ourself the drawing and and ourself the drawing and and ourself
which doesn't really happen in which doesn't really happen in which doesn't really happen in
traditional means when i draw traditional means when i draw traditional means when i draw
a drawing in one to 200 in a scale i a drawing in one to 200 in a scale i a drawing in one to 200 in a scale i
sort of know sort of know sort of know
how big that house is that i'm designing how big that house is that i'm designing how big that house is that i'm designing
now on the screen where you constantly now on the screen where you constantly now on the screen where you constantly
zoom in and out you don't have that zoom in and out you don't have that zoom in and out you don't have that
now for someone like me who has designed now for someone like me who has designed now for someone like me who has designed
inside virtual worlds to scale inside virtual worlds to scale inside virtual worlds to scale
it is a completely different scenario it is a completely different scenario it is a completely different scenario
you can literally you can literally you can literally
blow up your design sketch in a scale of blow up your design sketch in a scale of blow up your design sketch in a scale of
one to one one to one one to one
and reduce it down to one to ten in a and reduce it down to one to ten in a and reduce it down to one to ten in a
moment moment moment
you know in a flick of time and the you know in a flick of time and the you know in a flick of time and the
sense of embodiment sense of embodiment sense of embodiment
in that space and the sense of of space in that space and the sense of of space in that space and the sense of of space
um i think greatly has great potential um i think greatly has great potential um i think greatly has great potential
to enhance the design process to enhance the design process to enhance the design process
and if i could and i hopefully i will in and if i could and i hopefully i will in and if i could and i hopefully i will in
the future i will introduce the future i will introduce the future i will introduce
such technologies to certainly our such technologies to certainly our such technologies to certainly our
students in liverpool students in liverpool students in liverpool
there's a whole fleet of new software there's a whole fleet of new software there's a whole fleet of new software
that is now coming out that is now coming out that is now coming out
specifically made for architects so it's specifically made for architects so it's specifically made for architects so it's
a question we should have a question we should have a question we should have
in the architectural world but i would in the architectural world but i would in the architectural world but i would
be cautious to simply be cautious to simply be cautious to simply
brush it away and say no it's just brush it away and say no it's just brush it away and say no it's just
entertainment because it's not entertainment because it's not entertainment because it's not
thanks richard that's a great a great thanks richard that's a great a great thanks richard that's a great a great
answer and lots of notes answer and lots of notes answer and lots of notes
um i've got a question here which i hope um i've got a question here which i hope um i've got a question here which i hope
somebody on the panel knows what this somebody on the panel knows what this somebody on the panel knows what this
refers to i'm going to reveal my lack of refers to i'm going to reveal my lack of refers to i'm going to reveal my lack of
knowledge here knowledge here knowledge here
uh tracy harwood says thank you great uh tracy harwood says thank you great uh tracy harwood says thank you great
talk um and i think this is for everyone talk um and i think this is for everyone talk um and i think this is for everyone
do you have thoughts about the roles of do you have thoughts about the roles of do you have thoughts about the roles of
metaverse experiences metaverse experiences metaverse experiences
as a virtual world concept does anybody as a virtual world concept does anybody as a virtual world concept does anybody
want to want to want to
offer to come in on metaverses offer to come in on metaverses offer to come in on metaverses
the only way the only thing i've heard the only way the only thing i've heard the only way the only thing i've heard
metaverse metaverse metaverse
in recently is the world of crypto art in recently is the world of crypto art in recently is the world of crypto art
and cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency
and i must admit whenever i see it and i must admit whenever i see it and i must admit whenever i see it
mentioned i go oh yeah yeah i generally and i don't know if yeah i generally and i don't know if
that relates to that relates to that relates to
sort of um second you know second sort of um second you know second sort of um second you know second
lifestyle world like uh decentralized lifestyle world like uh decentralized lifestyle world like uh decentralized
not decentralized yeah decentraland yeah not decentralized yeah decentraland yeah not decentralized yeah decentraland yeah
things like that but that is that is all things like that but that is that is all things like that but that is that is all
i i know so i i know so i i know so
that is my terrible answer of i've heard that is my terrible answer of i've heard that is my terrible answer of i've heard
of the word of the word of the word
i think rosalind rosland punch drunk i think rosalind rosland punch drunk i think rosalind rosland punch drunk
metaverse metaverse metaverse
just is it a kind of collective virtual just is it a kind of collective virtual just is it a kind of collective virtual
shared space shared space shared space
ish like i'm not entirely sure how it ish like i'm not entirely sure how it ish like i'm not entirely sure how it
works but if that's the case i'm works but if that's the case i'm works but if that's the case i'm
i don't know i'd be quite interested in i don't know i'd be quite interested in i don't know i'd be quite interested in
it from the side of it from the side of it from the side of
how um so much more got into doing how um so much more got into doing how um so much more got into doing
online events when i know that there's a online events when i know that there's a online events when i know that there's a
load of other people that i know load of other people that i know load of other people that i know
out in the world who are also doing it i out in the world who are also doing it i out in the world who are also doing it i
attended them attended them attended them
nigel barrett and louise marie's party nigel barrett and louise marie's party nigel barrett and louise marie's party
skills for the end of the world skills for the end of the world skills for the end of the world
recently and that was a zoom which i recently and that was a zoom which i recently and that was a zoom which i
would would would
normally not run to the chance of doing normally not run to the chance of doing normally not run to the chance of doing
another zoom on a saturday night another zoom on a saturday night another zoom on a saturday night
but because i knew that there were other but because i knew that there were other but because i knew that there were other
family members and people that i knew family members and people that i knew family members and people that i knew
out there in the world also engaging in out there in the world also engaging in out there in the world also engaging in
that art form i was actually super that art form i was actually super that art form i was actually super
excited about it and it was excited about it and it was excited about it and it was
handled really nicely so i don't handled really nicely so i don't handled really nicely so i don't
actually know that that's the right kind actually know that that's the right kind actually know that that's the right kind
of of of
definition of that term but if um it is definition of that term but if um it is definition of that term but if um it is
the sense that you're still the sense that you're still the sense that you're still
kind of sharing a digital space but kind of sharing a digital space but kind of sharing a digital space but
you're all remote then you're all remote then you're all remote then
oh there's loads of things coming up in oh there's loads of things coming up in oh there's loads of things coming up in
the church yes um we're getting we're the church yes um we're getting we're the church yes um we're getting we're
getting links in the chat getting links in the chat getting links in the chat
uh in relationship to to this nyo did uh in relationship to to this nyo did uh in relationship to to this nyo did
you want to you want to you want to
have a go at metaverses i have nothing have a go at metaverses i have nothing have a go at metaverses i have nothing
to add i think i'm kind of about one to add i think i'm kind of about one to add i think i'm kind of about one
step behind gav step behind gav step behind gav
on yeah there are a lot of questions here yeah there are a lot of questions here
and i i've i've sort of given up on and i i've i've sort of given up on and i i've i've sort of given up on
answer asking them out in in in order um answer asking them out in in in order um answer asking them out in in in order um
we've got one here from sherry dobbin we've got one here from sherry dobbin we've got one here from sherry dobbin
saying for the producers of the content saying for the producers of the content saying for the producers of the content
which is really everyone here except for which is really everyone here except for which is really everyone here except for
me me me
what is your ideal newly created space what is your ideal newly created space what is your ideal newly created space
and ideal capacity of people at one time and ideal capacity of people at one time and ideal capacity of people at one time
obviously you have all show you have all obviously you have all show you have all obviously you have all show you have all
shown it can happen in many spaces but shown it can happen in many spaces but shown it can happen in many spaces but
what would you request of developers what would you request of developers what would you request of developers
if they were to sponsor that space it's if they were to sponsor that space it's if they were to sponsor that space it's
quite a big question but a specific one quite a big question but a specific one quite a big question but a specific one
at the same time at the same time at the same time
an ideal space i mean rosalind you you an ideal space i mean rosalind you you an ideal space i mean rosalind you you
go to any space go to any space go to any space
by the sounds of it right by the sounds of it right by the sounds of it right
yeah i guess so um i mean yeah what yeah i guess so um i mean yeah what yeah i guess so um i mean yeah what
would be your ideal space would be your ideal space would be your ideal space
like as soon as you started talking like as soon as you started talking like as soon as you started talking
straight away in my mind there's um straight away in my mind there's um straight away in my mind there's um
a basement jazz bar in a basement jazz bar in a basement jazz bar in
just near london fields kansas smitty's just near london fields kansas smitty's just near london fields kansas smitty's
which has been closed which has been closed which has been closed
this entire time if anybody would like this entire time if anybody would like this entire time if anybody would like
to make that space in a safe way to make that space in a safe way to make that space in a safe way
under the street there's a little under the street there's a little under the street there's a little
basement you can go in here the nicest basement you can go in here the nicest basement you can go in here the nicest
most recent jazz coming out i mean most recent jazz coming out i mean most recent jazz coming out i mean
it it's a really you can do the show it it's a really you can do the show it it's a really you can do the show
right here mentality right here mentality right here mentality
doing unusual and site-specific work doing unusual and site-specific work doing unusual and site-specific work
and i think we are going to see a huge and i think we are going to see a huge and i think we are going to see a huge
amount more of it like a massive amount more of it like a massive amount more of it like a massive
renaissance in renaissance in renaissance in
outdoor street theater um outdoor street theater um outdoor street theater um
that was hugely prevalent in the 70s and that was hugely prevalent in the 70s and that was hugely prevalent in the 70s and
80s and quite 80s and quite 80s and quite
political i guess because of the political i guess because of the political i guess because of the
activism crossover activism crossover activism crossover
and i think we'll see phenomenal amounts and i think we'll see phenomenal amounts and i think we'll see phenomenal amounts
of that and so of that and so of that and so
yeah it doesn't necessarily help to yeah it doesn't necessarily help to yeah it doesn't necessarily help to
answer the question but if somebody was answer the question but if somebody was answer the question but if somebody was
asking asking asking
me what kind of space would i want i'd me what kind of space would i want i'd me what kind of space would i want i'd
normally be asking what have you got normally be asking what have you got normally be asking what have you got
yeah yeah but it's interesting what yeah yeah but it's interesting what yeah yeah but it's interesting what
first came into your mind i think that's first came into your mind i think that's first came into your mind i think that's
always interesting richard you got your always interesting richard you got your always interesting richard you got your
hand up hand up hand up
yeah i mean it's a very interesting yeah i mean it's a very interesting yeah i mean it's a very interesting
question i could take it in different question i could take it in different question i could take it in different
directions but i know directions but i know directions but i know
um the author of the questions and then um the author of the questions and then um the author of the questions and then
probably know what she's alluding to probably know what she's alluding to probably know what she's alluding to
i think for me uh the ideal space would i think for me uh the ideal space would i think for me uh the ideal space would
be first of all one that's not the be first of all one that's not the be first of all one that's not the
you know determined by size but by the you know determined by size but by the you know determined by size but by the
quality quality quality
it currently embodies and ideally i it currently embodies and ideally i it currently embodies and ideally i
would want to love to work with space would want to love to work with space would want to love to work with space
that is somehow that is somehow that is somehow
abandoned neglected undervalued abandoned neglected undervalued abandoned neglected undervalued
something that something that something that
has very little value i think has very little value i think has very little value i think
uh sort of in in the public realm uh sort of in in the public realm uh sort of in in the public realm
and i think then to think about an and i think then to think about an and i think then to think about an
immersive experience to turn this immersive experience to turn this immersive experience to turn this
perception around and give it some value perception around and give it some value perception around and give it some value
that to me would be i think the ideal that to me would be i think the ideal that to me would be i think the ideal
space space space
and i can think of some artists who and i can think of some artists who and i can think of some artists who
obviously work on that domain and artist obviously work on that domain and artist obviously work on that domain and artist
group there's for instance the company group there's for instance the company group there's for instance the company
called ram labor in berlin they have called ram labor in berlin they have called ram labor in berlin they have
these these these
fantastic space installations where they fantastic space installations where they fantastic space installations where they
transform abandoned underground stations transform abandoned underground stations transform abandoned underground stations
temporarily into temporarily into temporarily into
theatrical settings for instance or into theatrical settings for instance or into theatrical settings for instance or into
a setting where you can have a dining a setting where you can have a dining a setting where you can have a dining
experience experience experience
in the middle of a narrow housing in the middle of a narrow housing in the middle of a narrow housing
housing situation or something like this housing situation or something like this housing situation or something like this
or sort of the street that has normally or sort of the street that has normally or sort of the street that has normally
not been really taken up by the public not been really taken up by the public not been really taken up by the public
so my answer is one so my answer is one so my answer is one
not um it would not be a question about not um it would not be a question about not um it would not be a question about
size or dimension but about the quality size or dimension but about the quality size or dimension but about the quality
of the space of the space of the space
something that is underused undervalued something that is underused undervalued something that is underused undervalued
and to give this new and to give this new and to give this new
new value new meaning yeah it is a good new value new meaning yeah it is a good new value new meaning yeah it is a good
question isn't it question isn't it question isn't it
okay do gavin and i want to have a go at okay do gavin and i want to have a go at okay do gavin and i want to have a go at
this this this
um it's a bit of a kind of blank page in um it's a bit of a kind of blank page in um it's a bit of a kind of blank page in
my mind i mean my mind i mean my mind i mean
i think you know and with a blank page i i think you know and with a blank page i i think you know and with a blank page i
would start from the story really and would start from the story really and would start from the story really and
then then then
kind of following one from rich's point kind of following one from rich's point kind of following one from rich's point
it's kind of find the story and then you it's kind of find the story and then you it's kind of find the story and then you
would look for the perfect location to would look for the perfect location to would look for the perfect location to
kind of meet all the kind of creative kind of meet all the kind of creative kind of meet all the kind of creative
needs needs needs
or you could flip it and you could you or you could flip it and you could you or you could flip it and you could you
know be presented with an incredible know be presented with an incredible know be presented with an incredible
kind of building and then work to find a kind of building and then work to find a kind of building and then work to find a
narrative to suit it narrative to suit it narrative to suit it
so i think in the way that we work and so i think in the way that we work and so i think in the way that we work and
think think think
we would be approaching it in that way we would be approaching it in that way we would be approaching it in that way
um yeah i think it always kind of um yeah i think it always kind of um yeah i think it always kind of
comes back to the the story leading or comes back to the the story leading or comes back to the the story leading or
creating a story to satisfy the creating a story to satisfy the creating a story to satisfy the
the opportunity story first okay yeah the opportunity story first okay yeah the opportunity story first okay yeah
i'm i'm so i'm i'm so i'm i'm so
new to this world as well you know i'm new to this world as well you know i'm new to this world as well you know i'm
used to my work is on a flat used to my work is on a flat used to my work is on a flat
generally by 16×9 rectangle in generally by 16×9 rectangle in generally by 16×9 rectangle in
on a flat space and so you know asked me on a flat space and so you know asked me on a flat space and so you know asked me
in a couple of years when we when we're in a couple of years when we when we're in a couple of years when we when we're
in the thick of this and i'm so excited in the thick of this and i'm so excited in the thick of this and i'm so excited
by it this is this is by it this is this is by it this is this is
you know the possibilities that you can you know the possibilities that you can you know the possibilities that you can
turn any space into turn any space into turn any space into
anything and immerse people and take anything and immerse people and take anything and immerse people and take
them somewhere else that's such a thrill them somewhere else that's such a thrill them somewhere else that's such a thrill
and i'm kind of looking forward to and i'm kind of looking forward to and i'm kind of looking forward to
finding where the finding where the finding where the
technology falls down or what is technology falls down or what is technology falls down or what is
difficult difficult difficult
you know that's that's how you learn and you know that's that's how you learn and you know that's that's how you learn and
grow right so for me i'm kind of grow right so for me i'm kind of grow right so for me i'm kind of
interested to see interested to see interested to see
oh actually that's not optimum if we oh actually that's not optimum if we oh actually that's not optimum if we
were in this space or that you know so were in this space or that you know so were in this space or that you know so
it's a whole new it's a whole new it's a whole new
exciting world thanks exciting world thanks exciting world thanks
um so there's another one that's caught um so there's another one that's caught um so there's another one that's caught
my eye this is interesting to me i don't my eye this is interesting to me i don't my eye this is interesting to me i don't
know if this is interesting to you it know if this is interesting to you it know if this is interesting to you it
seems like quite an important question seems like quite an important question seems like quite an important question
this is from marjaleen this is from marjaleen this is from marjaleen
charlotte she asks how do you think an charlotte she asks how do you think an charlotte she asks how do you think an
immersive interactive experience differs immersive interactive experience differs immersive interactive experience differs
from a game from a game from a game
where do you draw the line in being an where do you draw the line in being an where do you draw the line in being an
experienced creator and being a game experienced creator and being a game experienced creator and being a game
designer designer designer
do you think there's a difference in do you think there's a difference in do you think there's a difference in
audience and and approach so um you're nodding so i'll go to you so um you're nodding so i'll go to you
it's just such a resonant question it's just such a resonant question it's just such a resonant question
that's in my mind so frequently these that's in my mind so frequently these that's in my mind so frequently these
days um days um days um
i attended a symposium in um the time i attended a symposium in um the time i attended a symposium in um the time
before before before
covid and one of the attendants was covid and one of the attendants was covid and one of the attendants was
fantastically candid in saying i'll tell fantastically candid in saying i'll tell fantastically candid in saying i'll tell
you the reason why immersive theater in you the reason why immersive theater in you the reason why immersive theater in
particular doesn't cross over with video particular doesn't cross over with video particular doesn't cross over with video
games so frequently games so frequently games so frequently
got one word for you it's day rates got one word for you it's day rates got one word for you it's day rates
it's really glib thing to say but it's it's really glib thing to say but it's it's really glib thing to say but it's
absolutely true and i think it's absolutely true and i think it's absolutely true and i think it's
um all part of that um all part of that um all part of that
you know fact that as the art world has you know fact that as the art world has you know fact that as the art world has
needed to shut down and everybody's needed to shut down and everybody's needed to shut down and everybody's
digitally pivoted and gone into places digitally pivoted and gone into places digitally pivoted and gone into places
where where where
people can continue to access um those people can continue to access um those people can continue to access um those
things which spark your synapses from things which spark your synapses from things which spark your synapses from
the comfort of their own the comfort of their own the comfort of their own
there's so much of a question around how there's so much of a question around how there's so much of a question around how
we can actually imbue the technical we can actually imbue the technical we can actually imbue the technical
skills skills skills
of game engines and software into the of game engines and software into the of game engines and software into the
hands of theater makers and i think that hands of theater makers and i think that hands of theater makers and i think that
there's something there's something there's something
phenomenally exciting that happens when phenomenally exciting that happens when phenomenally exciting that happens when
you do that since the you do that since the you do that since the
power for abstraction within artists is power for abstraction within artists is power for abstraction within artists is
super strong super strong super strong
and actually with the tools and nuts and and actually with the tools and nuts and and actually with the tools and nuts and
bolts of like um even basic coding bolts of like um even basic coding bolts of like um even basic coding
the results that come out of those the results that come out of those the results that come out of those
interactions are interactions are interactions are
genuinely really exciting and it's only genuinely really exciting and it's only genuinely really exciting and it's only
the fact that the time and the money the fact that the time and the money the fact that the time and the money
that it takes to kind of get that it takes to kind of get that it takes to kind of get
to that um fusion to that um fusion to that um fusion
is um something which is going to be is um something which is going to be is um something which is going to be
kind of questionable kind of questionable kind of questionable
as we try to rebuild and people have as we try to rebuild and people have as we try to rebuild and people have
been taking you know government grants been taking you know government grants been taking you know government grants
just to keep the lights on and all that just to keep the lights on and all that just to keep the lights on and all that
you know being real about that but i you know being real about that but i you know being real about that but i
think we're going to see think we're going to see think we're going to see
such a kind of more of that kind of such a kind of more of that kind of such a kind of more of that kind of
uh leaping towards those two forms and uh leaping towards those two forms and uh leaping towards those two forms and
wanting to see it fuse together so i'm wanting to see it fuse together so i'm wanting to see it fuse together so i'm
super keen to see how super keen to see how super keen to see how
how it all plays out great thank you how it all plays out great thank you how it all plays out great thank you
other other thoughts on on the interface other other thoughts on on the interface other other thoughts on on the interface
between gaming between gaming between gaming
and immersive experiences richard is and immersive experiences richard is and immersive experiences richard is
that your that your that your
yeah i mean in a sense what we're doing yeah i mean in a sense what we're doing yeah i mean in a sense what we're doing
for the admin project for the admin project for the admin project
um i described it a little bit in this um i described it a little bit in this um i described it a little bit in this
in a sense obviously that we're bringing in a sense obviously that we're bringing in a sense obviously that we're bringing
in some in some in some
game technology thinking into an game technology thinking into an game technology thinking into an
immersive experience and immersive experience and immersive experience and
what i meant by that is that we are what i meant by that is that we are what i meant by that is that we are
focusing focusing focusing
on technology's uh sort of on technology's uh sort of on technology's uh sort of
main driver which is this notion of main driver which is this notion of main driver which is this notion of
being responsive and and being responsive and and being responsive and and
interactive and obviously as roz interactive and obviously as roz interactive and obviously as roz
already alluded to this as well already alluded to this as well already alluded to this as well
with a bit of coding you can do a quite with a bit of coding you can do a quite with a bit of coding you can do a quite
a lot of things particularly when you a lot of things particularly when you a lot of things particularly when you
create create create
real-time environments and which is real-time environments and which is real-time environments and which is
quite different and then perhaps of what quite different and then perhaps of what quite different and then perhaps of what
we traditionally would we traditionally would we traditionally would
have been done let's say even with some have been done let's say even with some have been done let's say even with some
of the immersive experiences i showed in of the immersive experiences i showed in of the immersive experiences i showed in
this this this
in this lecture today and now with in this lecture today and now with in this lecture today and now with
digital technologies we have the digital technologies we have the digital technologies we have the
possibility to create possibility to create possibility to create
characters and environments real time characters and environments real time characters and environments real time
responsive a number of sensors in the responsive a number of sensors in the responsive a number of sensors in the
space space space
and you suddenly as scaf alluded in the and you suddenly as scaf alluded in the and you suddenly as scaf alluded in the
beginning in this beginning in this beginning in this
in this response um in this response um in this response um
we can change the content on the fly and we can change the content on the fly and we can change the content on the fly and
the audience has the audience has the audience has
a input into what they see on the screen a input into what they see on the screen a input into what they see on the screen
and i think and i think and i think
that that element i think is something that that element i think is something that that element i think is something
that is incredibly powerful and that is that is incredibly powerful and that is that is incredibly powerful and that is
certainly a sort of a skill set certainly a sort of a skill set certainly a sort of a skill set
and that is not just technological but and that is not just technological but and that is not just technological but
also you have to have an understanding also you have to have an understanding also you have to have an understanding
of game design of game design of game design
what kind of triggers do we need what what kind of triggers do we need what what kind of triggers do we need what
kind of ways to kind of ways to kind of ways to
are we used to by now uh and in sort of are we used to by now uh and in sort of are we used to by now uh and in sort of
in an in an in an
interactive immersive environment that interactive immersive environment that interactive immersive environment that
we understand we can actually respond we understand we can actually respond we understand we can actually respond
to so we need the expertise of game to so we need the expertise of game to so we need the expertise of game
designers not just designers not just designers not just
for the technological input but also for for the technological input but also for for the technological input but also for
the understanding of how the understanding of how the understanding of how
an audience responds or reacts in such an audience responds or reacts in such an audience responds or reacts in such
an environment an environment an environment
thanks and there's actually go on gav thanks and there's actually go on gav thanks and there's actually go on gav
yeah well i was just going to say for us yeah well i was just going to say for us yeah well i was just going to say for us
from a production point of view it from a production point of view it from a production point of view it
is changing the way on on the project is changing the way on on the project is changing the way on on the project
that we're talking about you know shaun that we're talking about you know shaun that we're talking about you know shaun
the sheep for us is normally stock frame the sheep for us is normally stock frame the sheep for us is normally stock frame
animation which is animation which is animation which is
actual real physical puppets moved one actual real physical puppets moved one actual real physical puppets moved one
frame at a time frame at a time frame at a time
taken with a with a digital camera and taken with a with a digital camera and taken with a with a digital camera and
that's and that's that that's how it that's and that's that that's how it that's and that's that that's how it
it works and it's very slow but it's it works and it's very slow but it's it works and it's very slow but it's
very beautiful technique very beautiful technique very beautiful technique
and but for this project the whole thing and but for this project the whole thing and but for this project the whole thing
is running in unreal engine so we're is running in unreal engine so we're is running in unreal engine so we're
gonna gonna gonna
you know digitally scan have very high you know digitally scan have very high you know digitally scan have very high
resolution models of our camera resolution models of our camera resolution models of our camera
of our characters and obviously you know of our characters and obviously you know of our characters and obviously you know
we can we can change we can we can change we can we can change
everything in real time and and that's everything in real time and and that's everything in real time and and that's
that's a massive shift for us a gigantic that's a massive shift for us a gigantic that's a massive shift for us a gigantic
shift for us shift for us shift for us
and i was just thinking the other day and i was just thinking the other day and i was just thinking the other day
wouldn't it be wonderful in the style of wouldn't it be wonderful in the style of wouldn't it be wonderful in the style of
mandalorian mandalorian mandalorian
where you know sometimes we have giant where you know sometimes we have giant where you know sometimes we have giant
sets and we have blue or green screen sets and we have blue or green screen sets and we have blue or green screen
around to digitally extend the set around to digitally extend the set around to digitally extend the set
and obviously we then need to do that in and obviously we then need to do that in and obviously we then need to do that in
post-production but for us imagine a post-production but for us imagine a post-production but for us imagine a
director of photography director of photography director of photography
we have gigantic walls of leds in that we have gigantic walls of leds in that we have gigantic walls of leds in that
set set set
projecting you know what the light would projecting you know what the light would projecting you know what the light would
actually look like we can shift from a actually look like we can shift from a actually look like we can shift from a
sunrise sunrise sunrise
set shoot that and then go to a set shoot that and then go to a set shoot that and then go to a
nighttime set in the same nighttime set in the same nighttime set in the same
in the same way so kind of the in the same way so kind of the in the same way so kind of the
technology and sort of the thinking technology and sort of the thinking technology and sort of the thinking
behind games behind games behind games
production is is seeping into you know production is is seeping into you know production is is seeping into you know
our workflow and our workflow that is our workflow and our workflow that is our workflow and our workflow that is
that like say that like say that like say
is 40 years old as well so it's it's is 40 years old as well so it's it's is 40 years old as well so it's it's
kind of it's interesting kind of it's interesting kind of it's interesting
just borrowing bits from the world of just borrowing bits from the world of just borrowing bits from the world of
gaming as well gaming as well gaming as well
thanks thanks i've actually got i've got thanks thanks i've actually got i've got thanks thanks i've actually got i've got
a question here which i think follows on a question here which i think follows on a question here which i think follows on
nicely nicely nicely
from this because it's about the from this because it's about the from this because it's about the
collaboration that you're engaged in i collaboration that you're engaged in i collaboration that you're engaged in i
think think think
i i might go to naya about this first i i might go to naya about this first i i might go to naya about this first
because of the because of the because of the
the work she's been doing all around the the work she's been doing all around the the work she's been doing all around the
world so this is a question from simone world so this is a question from simone world so this is a question from simone
and she says and she says and she says
the cross-cultural creative the cross-cultural creative the cross-cultural creative
collaborative nature of the project in collaborative nature of the project in collaborative nature of the project in
shanghai sounds very challenging shanghai sounds very challenging shanghai sounds very challenging
and exciting uh can you elaborate more and exciting uh can you elaborate more and exciting uh can you elaborate more
about what the challenges you about what the challenges you about what the challenges you
encountered were encountering encountered were encountering encountered were encountering
and how does this compare to say uh and how does this compare to say uh and how does this compare to say uh
experience in uk experience in uk experience in uk
or or europe so you've been working on or or europe so you've been working on or or europe so you've been working on
projects projects projects
you know all over and um i understand you know all over and um i understand you know all over and um i understand
shaun the sheep is huge shaun the sheep is huge shaun the sheep is huge
in china yeah it is and china is one of in china yeah it is and china is one of in china yeah it is and china is one of
our biggest territories as well as japan our biggest territories as well as japan our biggest territories as well as japan
and south korea in and south korea in and south korea in
that part of the world um i mean i mean that part of the world um i mean i mean that part of the world um i mean i mean
part of the success of shaun the sheep is part of the success of shaun the sheep is part of the success of shaun the sheep is
the fact that it's non-dialogue which the fact that it's non-dialogue which the fact that it's non-dialogue which
kind of has you know a kind of a huge kind of has you know a kind of a huge kind of has you know a kind of a huge
benefit in benefit in benefit in
in um in lots of ways and that the in um in lots of ways and that the in um in lots of ways and that the
values are you know it's based on a kind values are you know it's based on a kind values are you know it's based on a kind
of a family dynamic and that kind of of a family dynamic and that kind of of a family dynamic and that kind of
translates anywhere translates anywhere translates anywhere
but in terms of kind of cultural but in terms of kind of cultural but in terms of kind of cultural
collaborations i think the approach that collaborations i think the approach that collaborations i think the approach that
we've always taken whenever we're we've always taken whenever we're we've always taken whenever we're
creating attractions or experiences for creating attractions or experiences for creating attractions or experiences for
audiences around the world audiences around the world audiences around the world
is to kind of work with is to kind of work with is to kind of work with
local producers and companies and to local producers and companies and to local producers and companies and to
really kind of understand really kind of understand really kind of understand
what those audiences want what's what those audiences want what's what those audiences want what's
culturally relevant to them culturally relevant to them culturally relevant to them
what's philosophically relevant to them what's philosophically relevant to them what's philosophically relevant to them
and work to find a narrative that and work to find a narrative that and work to find a narrative that
delivers that delivers that delivers that
so rather than kind of having a set of so rather than kind of having a set of so rather than kind of having a set of
rules in terms of how we develop our rules in terms of how we develop our rules in terms of how we develop our
attractions or experiences and these are attractions or experiences and these are attractions or experiences and these are
you know what you have to follow we take you know what you have to follow we take you know what you have to follow we take
a very different approach and a a very different approach and a a very different approach and a
much kind of nimbler approach and a much much kind of nimbler approach and a much much kind of nimbler approach and a much
more collaborative approach more collaborative approach more collaborative approach
um so it's always a massive learning um so it's always a massive learning um so it's always a massive learning
experience it's experience it's experience it's
always fascinating in lots of ways it's always fascinating in lots of ways it's always fascinating in lots of ways it's
one of the most fun bits of one of the most fun bits of one of the most fun bits of
of working internationally is really of working internationally is really of working internationally is really
kind of getting under the skin of kind of getting under the skin of kind of getting under the skin of
of the countries that you're working in of the countries that you're working in of the countries that you're working in
and the cultures that you're working in and the cultures that you're working in and the cultures that you're working in
and and and
and kind of collaboratively creating and kind of collaboratively creating and kind of collaboratively creating
those stories that those stories that those stories that
kind of give a reason for why your brand kind of give a reason for why your brand kind of give a reason for why your brand
is there for why you know you're kind of is there for why you know you're kind of is there for why you know you're kind of
placing this placing this placing this
this or licensing this attraction for this or licensing this attraction for this or licensing this attraction for
another part of the world thanks thanks um rosalind you've worked thanks thanks um rosalind you've worked
in um in um in um
oh sure richard yeah i was wanting to oh sure richard yeah i was wanting to oh sure richard yeah i was wanting to
i wanting to have roz answer this i wanting to have roz answer this i wanting to have roz answer this
question because roz answered question because roz answered question because roz answered
obviously worked for three years in obviously worked for three years in obviously worked for three years in
charlotte yes i was about to ask that charlotte yes i was about to ask that charlotte yes i was about to ask that
yes yes yes
yeah yeah i mean um yeah yeah i mean um yeah yeah i mean um
from i mean from a shanghai perspective from i mean from a shanghai perspective from i mean from a shanghai perspective
it's like it's like it's like
the appetite for experience the appetite for experience the appetite for experience
as a way to interact as a way to interact as a way to interact
is just absolutely off the charts and i mean we i would often be approached i mean we i would often be approached
about um about um about um
use of a shopping mall or kind of other use of a shopping mall or kind of other use of a shopping mall or kind of other
spaces to kind of bring work into etc spaces to kind of bring work into etc spaces to kind of bring work into etc
and in that i can sort of see how it and in that i can sort of see how it and in that i can sort of see how it
could absolutely inform every single could absolutely inform every single could absolutely inform every single
walk of life walk of life walk of life
um we found that audiences there were um we found that audiences there were um we found that audiences there were
approaching the work in so much more of approaching the work in so much more of approaching the work in so much more of
an engaged way an engaged way an engaged way
in a sense a little bit of that shanghai in a sense a little bit of that shanghai in a sense a little bit of that shanghai
flow kind of really coming into the flow kind of really coming into the flow kind of really coming into the
picture picture picture
the proximity of audiences to artists in the proximity of audiences to artists in the proximity of audiences to artists in
the actual immersive event the actual immersive event the actual immersive event
and then just the take up of sleep no and then just the take up of sleep no and then just the take up of sleep no
more as a concept more as a concept more as a concept
and how pervading that was within all of and how pervading that was within all of and how pervading that was within all of
the fans kind of mentality the fans kind of mentality the fans kind of mentality
and i think that anything that's got and i think that anything that's got and i think that anything that's got
that sort of strong that sort of strong that sort of strong
presence is a really um perfect presence is a really um perfect presence is a really um perfect
translation engine for going to a place translation engine for going to a place translation engine for going to a place
like shanghai because everybody is just like shanghai because everybody is just like shanghai because everybody is just
so hungry to so hungry to so hungry to
get into the art and really kind of get into the art and really kind of get into the art and really kind of
embrace it embrace it embrace it
thanks thank you um i think richard also thanks thank you um i think richard also thanks thank you um i think richard also
wants to follow up on this actually in wants to follow up on this actually in wants to follow up on this actually in
response to that yeah response to that yeah response to that yeah
and yeah i think i would like to follow and yeah i think i would like to follow and yeah i think i would like to follow
up as as the person who's up as as the person who's up as as the person who's
sort of leading this collaboration sort of leading this collaboration sort of leading this collaboration
between obviously ourselves between obviously ourselves between obviously ourselves
and outman and we have a really and outman and we have a really and outman and we have a really
important partner in this group which is important partner in this group which is important partner in this group which is
the the the
sta the shanghai theater academy and i sta the shanghai theater academy and i sta the shanghai theater academy and i
have to say have to say have to say
we learn a great deal i think i can we learn a great deal i think i can we learn a great deal i think i can
speak for speak for speak for
everyone in our team from the everyone in our team from the everyone in our team from the
collaboration with the shanghai theater collaboration with the shanghai theater collaboration with the shanghai theater
academy and i'm academy and i'm academy and i'm
i'm just constantly impressed by so many i'm just constantly impressed by so many i'm just constantly impressed by so many
things things things
not at least that the our our colleagues not at least that the our our colleagues not at least that the our our colleagues
in china in china in china
display a level of commitment and and display a level of commitment and and display a level of commitment and and
pace to the development pace to the development pace to the development
of and commitment to the development of of and commitment to the development of of and commitment to the development of
what they have in mind that is just what they have in mind that is just what they have in mind that is just
absolutely unprecedented in this roster absolutely unprecedented in this roster absolutely unprecedented in this roster
off the chart again i mean just we off the chart again i mean just we off the chart again i mean just we
cannot really cannot really cannot really
keep up with it um so that's really keep up with it um so that's really keep up with it um so that's really
absolutely astonishing and the other absolutely astonishing and the other absolutely astonishing and the other
thing is the sort of cultural thing is the sort of cultural thing is the sort of cultural
context again i'm really pleased to say context again i'm really pleased to say context again i'm really pleased to say
that for us that for us that for us
it's not something that we take lightly it's not something that we take lightly it's not something that we take lightly
or we just sort of take note of it or we just sort of take note of it or we just sort of take note of it
no we make it absolutely quintessential no we make it absolutely quintessential no we make it absolutely quintessential
the core of our the core of our the core of our
collaborative work as gav probably can collaborative work as gav probably can collaborative work as gav probably can
can can agree on this because this can can agree on this because this can can agree on this because this
influences the story so we're currently influences the story so we're currently influences the story so we're currently
working on the story working on the story working on the story
bespokely made for a chinese audience bespokely made for a chinese audience bespokely made for a chinese audience
and and and
it it raises everything you know the it it raises everything you know the it it raises everything you know the
questions that we're discussing questions that we're discussing questions that we're discussing
are extraordinary so it's of great are extraordinary so it's of great are extraordinary so it's of great
importance to us importance to us importance to us
great thank you thank you richard um so great thank you thank you richard um so great thank you thank you richard um so
there's a question here there's a question here there's a question here
which i think is quite interesting and i which i think is quite interesting and i which i think is quite interesting and i
just want to frame it in just want to frame it in just want to frame it in
in this way um richard i i really liked in this way um richard i i really liked in this way um richard i i really liked
about your talk that you concentrated on about your talk that you concentrated on about your talk that you concentrated on
kind of disastrous failures or kind of disastrous failures or kind of disastrous failures or
commercial failures you know that they commercial failures you know that they commercial failures you know that they
they didn't they didn't work out they didn't they didn't work out they didn't they didn't work out
they got something wrong and i was they got something wrong and i was they got something wrong and i was
trying to think well what was wrong how trying to think well what was wrong how trying to think well what was wrong how
did why did they fail did why did they fail did why did they fail
i mean they were a bit over complicated i mean they were a bit over complicated i mean they were a bit over complicated
you know uh partly you know uh partly you know uh partly
but but they were kind of the two but but they were kind of the two but but they were kind of the two
failures particularly were dependent on failures particularly were dependent on failures particularly were dependent on
if you like old media so the the maréorama if you like old media so the the maréorama if you like old media so the the maréorama
still had painting still had painting still had painting
as the kind of central point of how it as the kind of central point of how it as the kind of central point of how it
was going to work was going to work was going to work
and the the ballooning adventure kind of and the the ballooning adventure kind of and the the ballooning adventure kind of
had the panorama as its basic point of had the panorama as its basic point of had the panorama as its basic point of
reference and these are the point at reference and these are the point at reference and these are the point at
which the panorama was simply which the panorama was simply which the panorama was simply
you know running out of steam as a as a you know running out of steam as a as a you know running out of steam as a as a
medium that the sensation value of medium that the sensation value of medium that the sensation value of
panorama was was passing panorama was was passing panorama was was passing
so that's just the framing of this so that's just the framing of this so that's just the framing of this
question from claudia question from claudia question from claudia
which i'm interpreting in a particular which i'm interpreting in a particular which i'm interpreting in a particular
way you might interpret it differently way you might interpret it differently way you might interpret it differently
she says for whoever you believe would she says for whoever you believe would she says for whoever you believe would
answer the question best i think it answer the question best i think it answer the question best i think it
would all answer would all answer would all answer
it well what do you believe was the it well what do you believe was the it well what do you believe was the
largest turning point in immersive largest turning point in immersive largest turning point in immersive
experiences that has led us to the way experiences that has led us to the way experiences that has led us to the way
we use them now we use them now we use them now
and well this is a bigger question i and well this is a bigger question i and well this is a bigger question i
thought i didn't read it all at the end thought i didn't read it all at the end thought i didn't read it all at the end
and what do you see for the future of and what do you see for the future of and what do you see for the future of
immersive experiences so immersive experiences so immersive experiences so
i guess one of the ways i was i guess one of the ways i was i guess one of the ways i was
interpreting this was you know interpreting this was you know interpreting this was you know
were there particular experiences that were there particular experiences that were there particular experiences that
you had immersion that you thought were you had immersion that you thought were you had immersion that you thought were
so wow like maybe 3d cinema or something so wow like maybe 3d cinema or something so wow like maybe 3d cinema or something
um um um
at some point um i don't know if anybody at some point um i don't know if anybody at some point um i don't know if anybody
wants to have a go at this about what wants to have a go at this about what wants to have a go at this about what
was the most was the most was the most
um important turning point in immersive um important turning point in immersive um important turning point in immersive
experiences experiences experiences
it got us here today who wants to go who wants to pick this who wants to go who wants to pick this
complex question up i don't know if i had an answer but i i don't know if i had an answer but i
had a few reflections um had a few reflections um had a few reflections um
i think it's so on point the i think it's so on point the i think it's so on point the
the point about failure and it's the the point about failure and it's the the point about failure and it's the
thing that everyone's always trying to thing that everyone's always trying to thing that everyone's always trying to
remind themselves when they're working remind themselves when they're working remind themselves when they're working
creative industry in any other industry creative industry in any other industry creative industry in any other industry
which is the which is the which is the
samuel beckett quote like failed again samuel beckett quote like failed again samuel beckett quote like failed again
no matter fail again fell better no matter fail again fell better no matter fail again fell better
and of course they were using like a and of course they were using like a and of course they were using like a
painting to painting to painting to
make the next leap because you can't make the next leap because you can't make the next leap because you can't
imagine yeah beyond that imagine yeah beyond that imagine yeah beyond that
and so you have to make that failure to and so you have to make that failure to and so you have to make that failure to
then land to the next point then land to the next point then land to the next point
and then yeah i don't and then yeah i don't and then yeah i don't
know exactly what was the world's know exactly what was the world's know exactly what was the world's
turning and turning and turning and
experience that turned everybody on to experience that turned everybody on to experience that turned everybody on to
immersive experiences but i can talk immersive experiences but i can talk immersive experiences but i can talk
about one that i saw about one that i saw about one that i saw
a lot over the course of the olympic a lot over the course of the olympic a lot over the course of the olympic
summer in 2012 summer in 2012 summer in 2012
whereby we had circa who you were whereby we had circa who you were whereby we had circa who you were
working with working with working with
for shaun the sheep and had circa in for shaun the sheep and had circa in for shaun the sheep and had circa in
cathedrals with ifa giolini cathedrals with ifa giolini cathedrals with ifa giolini
doing a piece called how like an angel doing a piece called how like an angel doing a piece called how like an angel
it was all about like it was all about like it was all about like
trying to get off this mortal coil and trying to get off this mortal coil and trying to get off this mortal coil and
leap up and it was all acrobats and leap up and it was all acrobats and leap up and it was all acrobats and
architecture architecture architecture
but one acrobat would fall every night but one acrobat would fall every night but one acrobat would fall every night
from a 12 meter or so high from a 12 meter or so high from a 12 meter or so high
triforium a bit that's higher up in the triforium a bit that's higher up in the triforium a bit that's higher up in the
cathedral where the choir would normally cathedral where the choir would normally cathedral where the choir would normally
be be be
and just the way that a body falls in and just the way that a body falls in and just the way that a body falls in
from height you know it starts off very from height you know it starts off very from height you know it starts off very
slow motion and eventually gathers speed slow motion and eventually gathers speed slow motion and eventually gathers speed
and frequently we would just see people and frequently we would just see people and frequently we would just see people
go down with the the fall of the acrobat go down with the the fall of the acrobat go down with the the fall of the acrobat
who would ultimately be landing on crash who would ultimately be landing on crash who would ultimately be landing on crash
maps and it would all be completely fine maps and it would all be completely fine maps and it would all be completely fine
and safe and safe and safe
it was just so imp impression it was just so imp impression it was just so imp impression
uh to see that um uh to see that um uh to see that um
that empathy or sympathy within an that empathy or sympathy within an that empathy or sympathy within an
audience member where they would audience member where they would audience member where they would
literally pass out because they were literally pass out because they were literally pass out because they were
seeing a human body fall through seeing a human body fall through seeing a human body fall through
space and i think that was like the space and i think that was like the space and i think that was like the
perfect perfect perfect
summary of how when you're in a real summary of how when you're in a real summary of how when you're in a real
environment environment environment
and you're seeing something live and and you're seeing something live and and you're seeing something live and
there's a real human there and you're there's a real human there and you're there's a real human there and you're
there together there together there together
and the most simple and the most simple and the most simple
gestures can have some of the most gestures can have some of the most gestures can have some of the most
profound effects profound effects profound effects
yeah nice um i have no real experience in this um i have no real experience in this
world apart from world apart from world apart from
the most terrifying experience i ever the most terrifying experience i ever the most terrifying experience i ever
had 10 years ago was when a friend said had 10 years ago was when a friend said had 10 years ago was when a friend said
to me to me to me
hey will you come with me to this thing hey will you come with me to this thing hey will you come with me to this thing
in bristol there's a thing i've got you in bristol there's a thing i've got you in bristol there's a thing i've got you
a ticket a ticket a ticket
and i went along with my housemate and and i went along with my housemate and and i went along with my housemate and
was in the old abandoned courts was in the old abandoned courts was in the old abandoned courts
um in bristol and we got into the middle um in bristol and we got into the middle um in bristol and we got into the middle
of it and then the doors shut of it and then the doors shut of it and then the doors shut
and then it was immersive theater and and then it was immersive theater and and then it was immersive theater and
i'd never been to it before and it was i'd never been to it before and it was i'd never been to it before and it was
the most terrifying experience because i the most terrifying experience because i the most terrifying experience because i
don't don't don't
like not having control so for me it was like not having control so for me it was like not having control so for me it was
like this profoundly negative experience like this profoundly negative experience like this profoundly negative experience
of of of
oh my god they're going to talk to me oh oh my god they're going to talk to me oh oh my god they're going to talk to me oh
they're going to talk to me oh god they're going to talk to me oh god they're going to talk to me oh god
oh god how do i get out but it really oh god how do i get out but it really oh god how do i get out but it really
stuck with me stuck with me stuck with me
because it really kind of made me aware because it really kind of made me aware because it really kind of made me aware
of of of
of my own sort of comfort levels of sort of my own sort of comfort levels of sort of my own sort of comfort levels of sort
of immersion and interactivity and i of immersion and interactivity and i of immersion and interactivity and i
love video games love video games love video games
i love being immersed in the space i i love being immersed in the space i i love being immersed in the space i
love love love
sort of escaping to this world but funny sort of escaping to this world but funny sort of escaping to this world but funny
enough for me that enough for me that enough for me that
that extra step of it being other humans that extra step of it being other humans that extra step of it being other humans
and me not being in control and me not being in control and me not being in control
really stuck with me and it's always really stuck with me and it's always really stuck with me and it's always
kind of kind of kind of
it's just stuck in my mind of okay be it's just stuck in my mind of okay be it's just stuck in my mind of okay be
really aware of how an experience really aware of how an experience really aware of how an experience
makes you feel and sometimes for me makes you feel and sometimes for me makes you feel and sometimes for me
that's generally been that's generally been that's generally been
um film work you know which is which is um film work you know which is which is um film work you know which is which is
linear linear linear
but but the more stuff that i've got but but the more stuff that i've got but but the more stuff that i've got
into sort of immersive stuff it into sort of immersive stuff it into sort of immersive stuff it
definitely it's even though it was a definitely it's even though it was a definitely it's even though it was a
negative experience probably negative experience probably negative experience probably
15 years ago it's it's made me conscious 15 years ago it's it's made me conscious 15 years ago it's it's made me conscious
conscious of just think about how other conscious of just think about how other conscious of just think about how other
people interpret what you do people interpret what you do people interpret what you do
so yeah so that but that's my only so yeah so that but that's my only so yeah so that but that's my only
experience of being terrified in bristol experience of being terrified in bristol experience of being terrified in bristol
it's like an addictive drug though isn't it's like an addictive drug though isn't it's like an addictive drug though isn't
it i think immersive experiences you you it i think immersive experiences you you it i think immersive experiences you you
can have one can have one can have one
you completely lose yourself in it and you completely lose yourself in it and you completely lose yourself in it and
then you want the next one the bigger then you want the next one the bigger then you want the next one the bigger
hit than that you know hit than that you know hit than that you know
there's that kind of essence to it as there's that kind of essence to it as there's that kind of essence to it as
well which i think is well which i think is well which i think is
motivating a reflection i would have is motivating a reflection i would have is motivating a reflection i would have is
in reflecting on my own work and the in reflecting on my own work and the in reflecting on my own work and the
work that we have seen in work that we have seen in work that we have seen in
in the presentation these which were in the presentation these which were in the presentation these which were
experiences designed for large audiences experiences designed for large audiences experiences designed for large audiences
and obviously we need audiences to run and obviously we need audiences to run and obviously we need audiences to run
such events but such events but such events but
to me the most impactful immersive to me the most impactful immersive to me the most impactful immersive
theatrical experience i had was in sleep theatrical experience i had was in sleep theatrical experience i had was in sleep
no more no more no more
and roz will know exactly the moment and roz will know exactly the moment and roz will know exactly the moment
and scene when i tell her this tea and scene when i tell her this tea and scene when i tell her this tea
scene in the little heart bamboo heart scene in the little heart bamboo heart scene in the little heart bamboo heart
and that is one that is essentially and that is one that is essentially and that is one that is essentially
not spectacular at all it doesn't not spectacular at all it doesn't not spectacular at all it doesn't
involve large audiences it's a involve large audiences it's a involve large audiences it's a
very very intimate one-to-one very very intimate one-to-one very very intimate one-to-one
experience an with an actor in a very experience an with an actor in a very experience an with an actor in a very
small confined space small confined space small confined space
and it doesn't take particularly long and it doesn't take particularly long and it doesn't take particularly long
but to have gone through this but to have gone through this but to have gone through this
experience uh it just changed experience uh it just changed experience uh it just changed
everything to me in the way i see everything to me in the way i see everything to me in the way i see
theater today theater today theater today
and it was the opposite it wasn't and it was the opposite it wasn't and it was the opposite it wasn't
spectacular it doesn't spectacular it doesn't spectacular it doesn't
didn't need any big technological um didn't need any big technological um didn't need any big technological um
paraphernalia to paraphernalia to paraphernalia to
to to be conducted was just beautifully to to be conducted was just beautifully to to be conducted was just beautifully
framed framed framed
by the story by the setup by the action by the story by the setup by the action by the story by the setup by the action
by the actors and that's created the by the actors and that's created the by the actors and that's created the
massive impact massive impact massive impact
that wasn't filming point for me thanks that wasn't filming point for me thanks that wasn't filming point for me thanks
thanks richard thanks richard thanks richard
i just wanted to say on the end of that i just wanted to say on the end of that i just wanted to say on the end of that
that um that um that um
a bit what as gav was saying how a bit what as gav was saying how a bit what as gav was saying how
exhilarating it is and then as richard exhilarating it is and then as richard exhilarating it is and then as richard
was saying how was saying how was saying how
um intimate can be and now we're saying um intimate can be and now we're saying um intimate can be and now we're saying
how how how
addictive and it's like all those things addictive and it's like all those things addictive and it's like all those things
kind of in mind like i think a huge kind of in mind like i think a huge kind of in mind like i think a huge
amount of immersive theater is just amount of immersive theater is just amount of immersive theater is just
about care about care about care
and taking care of people in such a way and taking care of people in such a way and taking care of people in such a way
that um that um that um
when you actually are found inside that when you actually are found inside that when you actually are found inside that
environment you feel like you can environment you feel like you can environment you feel like you can
kind of have the agency to explore and kind of have the agency to explore and kind of have the agency to explore and
be a part of it without feeling be a part of it without feeling be a part of it without feeling
completely completely completely
um affronted and i think that's when you um affronted and i think that's when you um affronted and i think that's when you
get those little moments of magic like get those little moments of magic like get those little moments of magic like
the tea scene the tea scene the tea scene
yeah that's right yeah i think um i yeah that's right yeah i think um i yeah that's right yeah i think um i
think that's a really nice place to think that's a really nice place to think that's a really nice place to
to stop we've um we've gone over our our to stop we've um we've gone over our our to stop we've um we've gone over our our
time by time by time by
by a couple of of minutes um so i just by a couple of of minutes um so i just by a couple of of minutes um so i just
want to take the opportunity to thank um want to take the opportunity to thank um want to take the opportunity to thank um
richard and our our brilliant um richard and our our brilliant um richard and our our brilliant um
panelists but also very generous panelists but also very generous panelists but also very generous
you know very generous panelists for you know very generous panelists for you know very generous panelists for
taking the time but for the way taking the time but for the way taking the time but for the way
in which you've answered these questions in which you've answered these questions in which you've answered these questions
which have come flying at you which have come flying at you which have come flying at you
um from from all sides so really big big um from from all sides so really big big um from from all sides so really big big
thank you thank you thank you
um to all of you i also um want to um um to all of you i also um want to um um to all of you i also um want to um
thank uh the audience um and apologize thank uh the audience um and apologize thank uh the audience um and apologize
to them to them to them
you know so many questions um it's got you know so many questions um it's got you know so many questions um it's got
to the point where i was just sort of to the point where i was just sort of to the point where i was just sort of
grabbing what grabbing what grabbing what
caught my my eye but we're nothing caught my my eye but we're nothing caught my my eye but we're nothing
without our audiences without our audiences without our audiences
um as everyone everyone knows so you um as everyone everyone knows so you um as everyone everyone knows so you
know a huge thank you um know a huge thank you um know a huge thank you um
to to you and and also finally i wanted to to you and and also finally i wanted to to you and and also finally i wanted
to say thank you to to say thank you to to say thank you to
they've been on here on the screen the they've been on here on the screen the they've been on here on the screen the
whole time um helen thomas uh michael whole time um helen thomas uh michael whole time um helen thomas uh michael
hopkins and alan mcmanus hopkins and alan mcmanus hopkins and alan mcmanus
um making this event um happen happen um making this event um happen happen um making this event um happen happen
making it run making it run making it run
um so so smoothly um you've been um so so smoothly um you've been um so so smoothly um you've been
brilliant all of you for getting this brilliant all of you for getting this brilliant all of you for getting this
set up set up set up
in this in this way um so we will be in this in this way um so we will be in this in this way um so we will be
uh back again uh next week um we have a uh back again uh next week um we have a uh back again uh next week um we have a
talk by patricia talk by patricia talk by patricia
rossini from the communication and media rossini from the communication and media rossini from the communication and media
department with the department with the department with the
very enticing title block unfriend very enticing title block unfriend very enticing title block unfriend
quit which is about political discourse quit which is about political discourse quit which is about political discourse
on social on social on social
media and the engagement with or in media and the engagement with or in media and the engagement with or in
evasion of or avoidance of politics you evasion of or avoidance of politics you evasion of or avoidance of politics you
don't want to don't want to don't want to
um hear about um so thanks everyone um hear about um so thanks everyone um hear about um so thanks everyone
and i hope you have a a good a good rest and i hope you have a a good a good rest and i hope you have a a good a good rest
of the evening of the evening of the evening
[Music] [Music] [Music]
so so so
[Music] [Music] [Music]
you

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