MOST EXCITING Cryptocurrency Opportunity of the Decade! | Sovryn ‘DeFi on Bitcoin’ EXPLAINED

i actually don't think i think i've 
only seen this level of excitement   in the crypto space twice before so once was 
the very very earliest days of bitcoin when   also was excruciating to try and use bitcoin 
but it was kind of the best time to get in   and then also the very very early days of 
ethereum when i remember you know vitalik   was going from town to town in these meetups 
and just the level of excitement in the rooms   was crazy for something that hadn't hadn't even 
launched and so i'm extremely optimistic about   something because i've seen this happen twice 
before just the level of energy it's crazy hey welcome back everybody to altcoin 
daily my name is austin you are there and   and very excited to speak to special guests 
today iago who is an early contributor to   sovereign which is bringing d5 to bitcoin iago 
how's it going hey guys absolutely a pleasure to   be with you guys looking forward to it for sure 
and i'm excited number one because we've seen   all this all this d5 grow on the ethereum 
ecosystem and another you know cardano solano all   that money flow into those ecosystems and you guys 
are spearheading the charge for building this defy   infrastructure on bitcoin so i i want to get 
to that but first just big picture what's your   background and how did you get involved with 
crypto yeah so my background sort of from an   academic and business perspective is i was 
a neuroscientist i worked on neural networks   and i read the satoshi white paper in 2011 
because i was reading stuff in network science   i came across it by mistake and it blew my mind so 
part of my background is i grew up in south africa   uh which was you know apartheid south africa 
at the time part of my family were associated   with nelson mandela's anc party and had been 
designated as terrorists um and so they had   been forced to flee the country when i was a 
young kid i was smuggling gold out to them um   in krugerrands that my mother 
would sew into my clothing   uh so krugerrands are like these little gold coins 
and my family had you know survived the holocaust   by smuggling jewels so for me this 
idea that um financial sovereignty   was very important having the ability to have true 
ownership of something was critical to being able   to preserve your freedoms and your sovereignty 
was something i had grown up with and um   and i i you know had seen in many different 
examples in my life how when governments try   to control you or become oppressive the first 
thing they go after is the money they go after   your money because that's the best and easiest way 
for them to control a population so when i came   across bitcoin i think i was already primed uh to 
to sort of see the value there and and so in 2011   i started getting into bitcoin and very very 
quickly uh i became all bitcoin all the time and i   and i've been on a trying to build 
up the adoption of bitcoin ever since   well i love that yeah bitcoin is probably my 
opinion the best way to you know take control your   money and uh be able to you know transport it uh 
you know just hold on to it um my question is why   defy on bitcoin why defy on bitcoin i mean isn't 
d5 on ethereum or solana isn't that working fine   why defy on bitcoin well there are two reasons to 
have d5 on bitcoin the first reason is for bitcoin   and the second reason is for d5 so for bitcoin 
there's a trillion dollars in assets um those are   assets that people have uh value for right people 
hold bitcoin because they want to have an asset   that they can use without intermediaries but today 
if you want to use bitcoin you pretty much always   have to go through an intermediary if you want to 
lend if you want to borrow if you want to trade   if you want to have a stable coin all of these 
things are sending you to a central intermediary   and you can't even use uh ethereum for d5 because 
you know the way that bitcoin works on ethereum is   through a centralized party right so wbdc is just 
bitco account right so you have to trust them so   for bitcoin there's a huge sort of latent demand 
out there in fact i would say the biggest market   by far 4d5 is bitcoin and until sovereign came 
around no one was really tapping that market   and then from the defy side well i 
actually don't think you can build   really good defy outside of bitcoin and 
the reason is simple um bitcoin is unique   even after all of these years in the crypto 
space bitcoin is the only system that you know   it's going to look the same way today as it's 
going to look tomorrow and in 10 years and for   your children and your grandchildren it's a law of 
nature block after block after block the same rule   set the same thing that is the kind of reliability 
that you need if you're trying to build a new   financial system right because a new financial 
system means mortgages it means pensions it means   long-term term lending it means people's savings 
right it needs to be iron-clad reliability like a   law of nature and only bitcoin provides that so 
right now we're seeing a lot of experimentation   eve from solana on avalanche and and and i think 
that's really great right there's a lot to learn   from that experimentation but ultimately when we 
rebuild the financial infrastructure of the world   that's going to be done on bitcoin because it's 
the only reliable system out there so talk to me   about sovereign because i've personally seen 
you on the pomp podcast on bankless podcast   but pretend for those people that have never heard 
of sovereign what is it and what do you provide so   sovereign is an extension of bitcoin right it's 
a protocol that extends the the functionality   of bitcoin i i sometimes call it the bitcoin with 
superpowers right so with sovereign you're able to   build out all the key components of smart 
contracts decentralized finance and so um   uh what bitcoin what what sovereign does is it 
uses all of the technologies of bitcoin layer 2   to create these tools so in 
a very short space of time sovereign has built out uh lending and trading uh 
the margin trading uh bitcoin back stable coins a   launch pad and maybe most importantly a very very 
robust governance system that manages the protocol   and on top of that there's a whole 
slew of things that are being built   by people who are working on the sovereign 
protocol so sovereign is not a company   it's not an application it's a protocol and 
it basically means that bitcoin can now do   anything uh that you're seeing on the other 
chains and in particular sovereign right now is   focused on building out the financial tools that 
extend people's sovereignty over their bitcoin and   really over any type of money uh to never 
having to use an intermediary ever again   so with sovereign you can do bitcoin back stable 
coins you can do lending and borrowing you can   do spot and margin trading is that correct 
yes you can do yeah all of those things and   uh you know there's work right now being done by 
one team who are working to bring perpetual swaps   to sovereign there's a team who are bringing zero 
interest loans so you'll be able to borrow against   your bitcoin and pay zero interest into perpetuity 
so you never have to sell your bitcoin again   um there's a project that has already uh launched 
the system for uh doing for managing marriages and   they're now working on divorces so you can um when 
you get married you can do it you know without a   government without an intermediary you can just 
you know have a globally a global marriage which   is protected by the most secure system in the 
world the most permanent system in the world   bitcoin right and then if you ever get divorced 
instead of having to go through years and years   of a court case you just have a smart contract 
that's able to manage that out there's a team   working on mortgages there's a team working on 
systems with el salvador so that um uh people   in el salvador can start uh borrowing against 
their bitcoin and using bitcoin back stablecoins   uh with lightning network as their normal means 
of payment it's phenomenally uh exciting how much   innovation is happening and what's cool about it 
also is in many ways it's different from sort of   like the experiments in default that have been 
happening on other channels because bitcoin is   so much more connected to real world uh economics 
right so like these things like pensions mortgages   these things are happening on sovereign because 
bitcoins already deeply embedded into the world   of remittance into el salvador into the way that 
nigerians save money so it's really exciting to   see a different kind of d5 emerging very 
very quickly interesting i'd love for you   to go further on that because for the average 
person they just they're just going to care   about ease of use i would assume that they're 
not in a crypto so bitcoins are embedded in a   lot of these places around the world could you 
just speak a little bit more on why somebody   might choose lending and borrowing on sovereign 
as opposed to on an other protocol well i mean   so for example with el salvador the reason is 
obvious right so el salvador have chosen bitcoin   um as legal tender in their country and you 
know there's a reason they they chose uh bitcoin   right they weren't going to choose ethereum they 
weren't going to choose seoul uh because ethereum   is constantly changing um is actively managed 
by an unclear group of people and is about to   go through this massive upgrade right 
so it's it's it it's a different   it's a technology it's a very cool technological 
technological platform but as an institution   right as a system for delivering sound money 
that's really not what ethereum has gone after   and so you know large institutions 
companies when they put their treasury money   and countries when they choose to be sovereign 
themselves or to enhance their own sovereignty   they choose bitcoin so if you want to have 
a decentralized financial system where the   people of el salvador can have access to you know 
you guys could be able to lend them money right   or they could have access to a system which 
is going to allow them to get a mortgage on   a house where usually they wouldn't 
be able to because they're unbanked   you're going to need a system which is not only 
connected to bitcoin but it's also backed and   based on the reliability of bitcoin and so i think 
for that reason it's something that really yeah   only sovereign right now is providing and i always 
like to i would like to say you know bitcoin is   our best shot to truly separate money from 
state just because it's the most censorship   resistant it's the most decentralized obviously a 
critique from maybe an outsider would be it's slow   but you guys are building on a side chain 
correct can you talk about the trade-offs   or the side chain or you're playing so yes a 
sovereign basically is like an operating system   for bitcoin layer two so it combines all of the 
different layers so um most of the smart projects   um are going to be built and currently are 
built on rootstock which is a side chain of   bitcoin it's got uh it it's kind of like if you 
took the technology of ethereum and ported it to   bitcoin and you'd like get the best of both 
worlds that's what rootstock is so rootstock is   evm compatible you can use and you can even 
port ethereum type contracts it's got a 30   second block speeds you can do roll ups you can 
do zero knowledge proofs um so that's rootstock   and then also on the transaction side we're 
integrating lightning network right so you can   use that for payments and that's basically going 
to infinite scale so people say that bitcoin isn't   scalable or that it's slow but i think again 
that's looking at it through the wrong frame of   reference it's looking at it through the reference 
of like as if the layer one was the technology and   as if the technology was what was important 
so technology is always built out in layers   and bitcoin is actually probably the most scalable 
blockchain because what it's done is it said we're   going to be very very precise in the layers that 
we built right so the bitcoin layer 1 the bitcoin   main chain is very very good at just acting as a 
settlement layer it's the best settlement there   because it's so reliable lightning is really 
really good because it's got infinite scale   rootstock is really really good because it's 
secured by bitcoin proof of work but can do   smart contracts i think that's the way that 
you build technology uh which is scalable and   bitcoin is also extremely scalable in another way 
which most people don't seem to talk about but i   think is really important bitcoin scalability 
is not about technology it's about sovereignty   right so bitcoin is scalable sovereignty 
individuals get bitcoin because they want   to be suffering they want to have control 
over their own destiny and their finances   companies get bitcoin because they want to be 
suffering they want to have control over the   treasury and their financial future right so 
if you think about michael saylor that's what   he keeps saying if you think about why tesla 
bought bitcoin it's exactly for that reason   and now countries are buying bitcoin for exactly 
the same reason right it's so that they are less   reliant on the dollar less reliant on the us 
uh can can less be pressured by the world bank   so that's a phenomenal thing right there's 
this tool that provides sovereignty from   the level of the individual all the way 
up to nation states that's scalability   i love that um everybody in the audience 
i'm curious to know what you're thinking   i think if you appreciate this kind of interview 
hit the like button uh because iago is certainly   providing some some great alpha here this might 
go without saying but with um sovereign you   keep control of your keys yes so you can't have 
d5 if you're not controlling your keys right so   the so sovereign you never need to register like 
your name or anything it's not like an exchange   well it feels like an exchange right so i think 
you know the devs who are working on the reference   implementation the front end so if you go to 
sov ryn dot app sovereign dot app you can see   the front end and you can click into 
the app and you can connect your wallet   um and you know it's not perfect the system's 
only been out for about five months and there's   constant duration but you'll see how much stuff 
is being built and that's all being built by   different teams and by the core team and you'll 
you'll probably have an experience which is more   similar to a centralized exchange than maybe 
any other defined system and that's on purpose   because sovereign is not really 
competing with d5 and ethereum or solana   sovereign is competing with centralized finance 
as a concept uh in just the same way that   bitcoin is competing with centralized money as a 
concept and so the idea is to try and make this   not but you know we're not quite there yet but to 
make this as approachable for ordinary people as   a centralized service and in many ways 
it's better than a centralized service   even for the average user because you don't have 
to register you don't have kyc you just click   and you're you're in and you don't give up your 
funds you basically have the funds in your wallet   and you you spend them or use them or transact 
with them as you want so i think it's it's it's   ultimately going to be the most 
frictionless experience that users can have   i like that i'm really excited to check it out and 
we will be leaving all links in the description   so everybody can just click through down in the 
description you know you'll know it's the real   link um i'm curious to hear about the actual sov 
token the sovereign token which has a fluctuating   value what is the use case for the sub token so 
you never need to use solve to use the sovereign   platform right the protocol is permissionless 
anyone can use it at any time and the base asset   is bitcoin but you can have stable coins you 
can have e there's b and b even on the system   so why is there another token and the reason 
there's another token is because when you are   building a decentralized system you're building 
what you're really building is a rule set   right you're building the rules of the road for 
the people who are going to be using the system   now bitcoin has taken like bitcoin main chain 
has taken the approach of you are you're building   a rule setting everyone in the world needs to 
be able to use and so uh and not only that it   needs to be money it needs to be like the most 
reliable thing in the world like gold right so   gold doesn't change and so bitcoin doesn't change 
and so you have this very very simple rule set now   on top of gold uh hundreds of years ago people 
started building the financial system right   the financial system has more rules has um more 
things that it needs to be able to do and so um   sovereign which is building its financial system 
needs to have more rules and those need to be   able to change more frequently so there needs to 
be a way of coming to consensus around how those   rules are going to work and maybe i'll take a 
step back here for a second and say something   about sort of i think maybe the biggest thing i 
think people are missing in the crypto space right   so i think most people have been looking 
at the crypto space through the lens of   technology right we've been trained over 
20 years of tech investing right that you   invest in tech net networks like like twitter or 
facebook and you make a lot of money and so that's   the lens that people look at bitcoin and crypto 
is sort of like a continuation of the internet   but the systems that we're building are not tech 
products they're social institutions money is a   social institution finance is a social institution 
these are not technologies these are rule sets   and i'll go a step further the key innovation in 
bitcoin and in the entire crypto space is actually   really really simple um people say it's all kinds 
of things like ethereum we've talked about a world   computer and bitcoiners i think are frequently 
just as confused they talk about like digital   gold right use all of these metaphors but actually 
there's just one really basic thing which bitcoin   invented which is digital property rights and 
that's really important to understand because   up until now for the last 5 000 years of human 
history the only way that you could protect your   property was through violence right either you had 
to have like a gun or a club or you had to rely on   the police or a government and you 
kind of pay them protection money   and so all law has relied on borders and 
violence but we're living in a digital age now   borders don't make sense and violence can't 
be applied at a distance so what we need for   a global digital world is a global digital type 
of law and that's what basically bitcoin invented   the implications of changing our entire property 
rights legal structure are very very narrow right   i mean it's not we're not building you know world 
computers here we're building institutions and so   i think that's the lens that you have to look at 
the entire crypto space as even as an investor you   have to invest saying what are the institutions 
that are going to last and stand the test of time   and and that's really why bitcoin is so different 
from other things and why i think d5 built on   bitcoin is different because it's designed 
to stand the test of time as an institution   so yeah well i was just gonna and so it like and 
so the saab token is a governance token and what   you're saying is allows the community then to set 
those guidelines instead of one centralized entity   right but it's very careful about how it does 
it right so it's not just one token one vote   and the reason is if you have one 
token one vote you expose the system to   malicious manipulation so for example i 
could go and borrow a whole bunch of tokens   vote on something vote on giving me a whole 
bunch of money return the tokens didn't cost   me anything right i can manipulate the system 
the other thing that you have to pay attention   to is the incentives right so for example 
uni token right people can vote all day long   but they don't get anything for voting and so 
um participation is quite low the incentives to   participate or to think carefully about 
how you're going to do it are quite low   with sov token the way the system is designed 
is you kind of have to mine the right to vote   what does that mean you have to lock up the sov 
token to be able to vote you give up liquidity   but the longer you lock it up for the more voting 
power you get now this does two things first of   all it means that even small token holders can 
have more power by locking their tokens up for   longer second it forces everyone to have a very 
very long term view right so it forces long-term   thinking for the entire system and three it 
protects the system from short-term attacks   and then the incentive system is also aligned 
around long-term thinking because the longer   you're locking your token up for the more revenue 
you earn from the system so it's sort of a way of   instead of becoming a landlord right where you 
just you don't have to you know you just got   a bunch of tokens and you can you can vote with 
them and you can decide things it's kind of like   bitcoin mining you actually have to constantly 
work constantly spend in order to participate   in the governance so you become a service 
provider instead of sort of like a land bearer   interesting very interesting i like that i like 
that what is the uh i is the biggest challenge in   the short term for sovereign is it onboarding 
users or what would you say is the biggest   challenge yeah so i think right now sovereign is 
you know it's a new protocol um it's um it's got   a lot of you know kinks to work out and so it's 
not the easiest thing to use um it's uh sometimes   got you you know especially on the ui it's not 
always the easiest thing to understand and so   i think it's going to be a little bit of time 
before it really becomes easy to onboard everyone   but i the rate at which it's improving is 
remarkable i don't think i've ever seen anything   certainly not in a decentralized space improve 
at this rate right so i i remember using it   a few months ago like five months ago it was 
basically unusable and now you can go check it   out for yourself it's like it's starting to 
feel like a like like a centralized service   so that's definitely like the biggest challenge 
that said usage is constantly growing uh it   turns out that it's a really really sticky 
protocol so we can see that addresses that   interact with it um tend to continue 
interacting with it at very very high rates   um and um and and there's growing traction 
around it and the developer community that's   growing around it is growing at an astounding rate 
too i actually don't think i think i've only seen   this level of excitement in the crypto space twice 
before so once was the very very earliest days of   bitcoin when also was excruciating to try and use 
bitcoin but it was kind of the best time to get in   and then also the very very early days of 
ethereum when i remember you know vitalik   was going from town to town in these meetups 
and just the level of excitement in the rooms   was crazy for something that hadn't hadn't even 
launched and so i'm extremely optimistic about   something because i've seen this happen twice 
before just the level of energy uh it's crazy   and let me ask you this what does success look 
like for sovereign then in five years you know   the bull case what does that look like well i 
think the first thing that sovereign's going   to probably be doing is um bringing that trillion 
dollars of assets which in five years i think is   going to be like 10 trillion dollars of bitcoin 
assets uh in um you know we've been seeing the   amount of bitcoin as a percentage on centralized 
exchanges dropping now for over a year and a half   um we've seen celsius sort of get attacked by 
the sec coinbase get attacked by the sec uh you   know um all of the big lending uh platforms 
are are are being forced to shut down and   uh you know buy bit of pulled out of south 
korea i think what's going to happen is people   um are going to realize that they can't use 
decentralized services with reliability and we're   already starting to see that migration so like 
you know we've got a lot of people who are using   sovereign who tell us you know yeah i was using 
bitmix right and like i just like then you know   they they got indicted i don't know when 
i don't have my funds there anymore right   um so i think that's going to be step one at the 
same time there's sort of like a current building   out these tools which you really haven't seen 
defy tackle before so there's a project which i   think maybe even within the coming year is going 
to start offering like long-term pensions for   people in central america who can't rely on their 
government so they can't invest in a pension but   now because it's controlled by a smart contract 
they can i think um very soon we're likely to   start seeing things happening in el salvador uh 
i think uh you know we're starting to see you   know there's a team from nigeria who are working 
on fiat off-ramps for africa for remittance so i   think there's going to be a lot of like real world 
use cases that are also going to be happening and   it's kind of going to be the same thing as what 
we saw with bitcoin's growth right so it's like   a lot of like the bitcoin industry uh uh growing 
and at the same time you know remittance and   other types of sort of uh use cases that are 
just real-world use cases growing in parallel   very cool it's very exciting um again i encourage 
everybody to follow up with sovereign uh you know   check the links in the description below follow 
yaga on twitter we'll leave links to all that   stuff um i think you know you answered a lot of 
my questions we just have probably a few more   big picture type questions um that i think a lot 
of people in our audience are curious about um   the first one you kind of mentioned this the ussc 
seems to be circling cryptocurrency the sharks are   circulating yeah um is regulation good for crypto 
do you think regulatory clarity would bring no   massive amounts of institutional money into crypto 
or what do you think about regulations in general   sometimes people say that countries will ban 
bitcoin i think what's really going to happen is   that bitcoin is going to ban countries so i think 
that the current state in it the way it is now is   basically a relic of the industrial age right 
and we feel it all the time right like what's   happening with covert now right what happened in 
2008 the lack of trust that everyone has in their   government the polarization the fact that left 
and right wing politics just sounds so irrelevant   to our lives right on every single level they're 
they're failing right our institutions are failing   can't deal with covert can't deal with global 
warming can't deal with financial crises like   what's going on and what's going on is that our 
institutions are just simply not designed for a   digital digital globalized world and that's 
what we live in right now so i think it's   inevitable that that entire system is going 
to be replaced uh or at least augmented by   the new institutions that we're building 
in the crypto space institutions like big   brand like sovereign and additional things 
that are being worked on uh and i think that   we don't need to be scared about regulation uh 
because the harder they squeeze the faster this   is going to happen and the reason is like 
let's say you know they put out um you know   central bank digital currencies right cbdc's right 
and people are going to have this immediate thing   where they'll be able to say oh wow like this 
is surveillance money and this is free money   right right now they've got cash imagine they 
get rid of cash right everyone's going to need   crypto and then if they try to get crypto it's 
only going to make people realize more that they   need the crypto institutions institutions are all 
global right now if the u.s says you can't invest   in i mean you know u.s corporations we know 
like the how much corporate tax do they pay   zero right we all know that u.s corporations 
pay zero tax because they're just offshore   if the regulations say that u.s corporations 
can't hold bitcoin they're just offshore the world   doesn't work with borders anymore now every 
major significant player right the corporates   the the ngos and ourselves just like now 
you know we can work remotely from wherever   uh uh live in a post-border world so the harder 
they squeeze the faster it's going to accelerate   the process and you know this process is 
you know it sounds like such a big thing   like such a mad idea that we're going to 
replace big parts of our institutions right   but think about it this way it took 12 years 
only 12 years for us to go from zero to nation   state with bitcoin think about what the 
next 12 years are going to bring because   the whole thing is accelerating and as this 
i totally agree with you that it's going to   one it's inevitable especially if you're in 
the u.s and the harder they squeeze you know   the faster this will get done but as they're 
augmenting this regulation or it's changing   if you have like one message for gary gensler as 
somebody just somebody who's been in this space   for a while what would you tell them i i think i 
have a very simple message for them which is this   for the last 20 years we've had the internet 
everyone thought that the internet was going   to create phenomenal productivity growth it was 
going to increase this rate at which the economy   grew because every single corporation every 
single person was now connected to each other   they had digital access and access to information 
and what did we see for the last 20 years we've   seen stagnation this is really weird why did this 
happen and i think there's a really simple reason   the reason is that we had 21st century technology 
the internet but it was married to iron age   institutions there is no private property on 
the internet you are you are a surf in a feudal   system right your emperor is mark zuckerberg 
or you know jeff bezos they control you the   person who owns the servers owns everything you 
don't have private property now private property   and any us uh citizen right knows private property 
is the source of prosperity it's what incentivizes   people to work is what creates innovation um it's 
it's what drives people uh and and corporations to   grow and and and it does that by giving people 
the assurance that what they create they'll   get to keep right so we had this 21st century 
amazing technology the internet but we tied it   to the economic policy of the soviet union and so 
instead of taking us forwards it took us backwards   now now we have digital property rights on the 
internet right so we now have this 21st century   technology which is an infinite frontier right 
and we have the property rights to go with it   we've already seen what that does in just ten 
years we created a two trillion dollar industry   out of nothing we are entering into the greatest 
period of wealth creation that human beings have   ever seen the people who are watching you 
know altcoin daily are getting a once in a   thousand lifetimes opportunity to invest in a 
point in time when you have an infinite frontier   and a new type of protecting property these things 
don't happen ever right so we're going to see   hundreds of millions of trillion hundreds of 
trillions of dollars worth of wealth created   over the next 10 15 years right there's never 
been an opportunity like this so all i would   say to gary is do you want to be part of this 
a lot it's inevitable i love that and i totally   agree that long-term perspective this train is 
rolling it's happening just a fun question now   that we like to ask all our guests but for 
the end of this year 2021 what's your uh   bitcoin price prediction i mean i don't typically 
look at the price i i i bought my first bitcoins   at you know when they were trading at 3.50 right 
i still haven't sold any uh and that's because i   see this as you know generational wealth you know 
and that's why i you know i have some ease and i   have some of the other things and i use them 
to experiment and to play but it's not a way   that i can save my money right it's not something 
that i know that my kids or my grandkids will be   able to inherit um so i don't really care but uh 
whatever it is now 10 exit by the end of this year   i mean by the end of this year i wouldn't be 
i mean i i wouldn't be surprised to see at a   quarter million dollars by the end of the year 
damn i love it so you're telling me that you   know you've been in bitcoin a long time and 
you've never sold any significant amount   i've never sold no i mean like i've maybe 
sold a few hundred dollars worth of bitcoin   i love that will you i mean i'm never going to 
have to sell like you gotta sovereign i'm not   going to be able to borrow against my bitcoin 
at zero percent interest like true you never   have to sell bitcoin that's like it that is the 
asset you know every generation has to make one   good decision your grandparents had to decide to 
go to college they did that they could fudge up   everything else they'd be fine your parents had to 
decide to buy a house didn't matter how much they   were underwater on the mortgage if they bought 
a house in the 80s they're millionaires today   our generation has an even bigger opportunity 
just by bitcoin right doesn't matter what you   do you're going to end up with fudge you money i 
love that and that brings me to my final question   if you're a new investor coming into this space 
today what's a piece of advice you would give   that new investor be an investor not a speculator 
right so speculation is fun and it's cool but you   have to remember it's a casino right so so so you 
only put casino money in right bitcoin is your   savings account 80 or more should be in bitcoin 
the amount that you allocate to speculating on   other things that's casino money when you get into 
this like most of people come in in bull markets   there's a lot of excitement and everyone has 
fantasies of getting rich right there are very few   ways to get ric to get poor quicker than trying 
to get rich quick right the people that i know   and and have met along this journey that 
i've been on for the last 10 years who have   really made it are the people who have taken 
a long-term view and have acted in the most   boring way possible and not just with bitcoin but 
with the other assets as well you know people who   have taken a long-term view on ethereum so don't 
be a speculator be an investor interesting i love   that and not to put you on the spot but also 
just maybe to go a step further let's say you   were talking with your buddy at the bar who's 
a more experienced investor someone closer to   somebody who's been in the space for a long 
time what's a piece of advice you may give him are you someone who's been in the crypto 
space you meet yeah like this you know   like a more experienced investor now because 
that was really good advice i think for a new   uh you know person in cryptocurrency 
but like for a more experienced person   yeah so what i would do for that person 
is i would go back to what i said earlier   don't think of this as technology think about 
this as building institutions right the paradigm   has changed we're not building the internet 
anymore we're building what comes after the   internet right we're building the property rights 
for an internet age so when you're looking at   opportunities to invest in space there are hidden 
gems right those are the things that are building   fundamentally new institutions that are going 
to be valuable and reliable into the future   i love that um iago thank you so much for joining 
us today i feel i have such a better understanding   of sovereign and all the all the infrastructure 
that's being built would you just give final   thoughts for the altcoin daily audience and final 
thoughts about sovereign yeah so i i would say   this um the great thing about bitcoin the genie 
or one of the many genius things that satoshi did   right is that it's a debt-free scheme dressed 
up as a get rich quick scheme right so get rich   but the real thing here the real valuable thing 
is to is to become sovereign is to become the   master of your own destiny to be able to help 
yourself your family and the people close to you   achieve what they want to achieve so at the end 
of the day i think the real opportunity here is to   stay sovereign hell yeah everybody needs to 
check out sovereign check out the user interface   try it out for yourself um if you're if you 
wanna you know do that uh i think it's an   awesome product follow yago on twitter and uh 
you know we'll be we'll be keeping our audience   updated on sovereign for sure thanks for coming on 
today ago thanks for having me it's been awesome

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