EP 51: Understanding $ALCX (Alchemix) | Unique Stable Coin with Limitations?

Alright right welcome back to another episode 
at Economics Design as you can imagine   we're going to dive a little bit more 
into stable coins these next few months   we talked about FEI the last time and today I want 
to talk about the other types of stable coins out   there are a lot of innovative ideas 
and there are a lot of very interesting   mechanisms to create these stable coins and I 
think stable coins are going to be very important   I think a lot of investors are not so keen on 
stable coins because you don't earn as much but   I think they form a very important foundation to 
growing the ecosystem and to allow more people to   come into the Defi ecosystem so I think stablecoin 
is very interesting and I definitely want to talk   a little bit more about stable coins so today 
we're going to talk about Alchemix the economics   of Alchemix and how it is a no loss stable coin 
again disclaimer this not investment advice this   purely educational and opinions are my own and 
not representative of the company what we're   going to cover today we are going to cover what is 
Alchemix Finance how is the stablecoin created how   do you maintain stability how is this stablecoin 
different as well as some thoughts and opinions   the idea got started probably back in 2018 
at the time there wasn't really any Defi   but one of my friends who had met in a crypto 
Discord he had played around with some different   dApp ideas and he had made some really small 
ones and one of those was this kind of project   where it was actually kind of similar to Alchemix 
but it didn't have Defi so it didn't have a stable   source of income so eventually it kind of ran out 
of steam and it couldn't continue anymore but the   creator of that app who's a CTO of Alchemix he 
kept on thinking about it and thinking about it   and then in June 2020 he approached me because 
he knows that I’m a front-end developer   and he said okay I think I got this 
new app it's going to be really cool   and I need you to build a front end for me and 
I’ve been looking to work on a crypto project   at this point I’ve been doing mostly Web 2 stuff 
and so I jumped in and I started working on it   back then were called CheeseFi and the idea for 
CheeseFi is kind of similar to Alchemix but not as   good the idea is that you would lock up your DAI 
for between 10 and 100 days and then immediately   get Cheese tokens in return for that and 
then those the DAI would then go into yield   aggregators like at the time we were going to use 
Idle because that was the only one that existed and then take the yield from the DAI deposits and 
then buy back the Cheese tokens from the market   to create this kind of pseudo yield token that 
you could get up front but then we did some more   research and we dug into the mechanics of all this 
and we learned about the miner extractable value   problem specifically sandwich attacks and sandwich 
attacks could be devastating to the CheeseFi model   Alchemix what is Alchemix is a stable coin that 
uses DAI as collaterals to create this stable coin   so it's another stable coin protocol and I 
think the very interesting thing that is in this   protocol that I want to talk about is how it 
includes real inflation it includes real growth in   the ecosystem which is why it's quite different 
and it talks about capital efficiency as well   I’ve been saying quite a few times now that when 
you first enter the system when the entire Defi   ecosystem is growing you don't think so much 
about capital efficiency you're thinking about   over collateralization you're thinking about 
risk management you're thinking about yield   today things are a bit different we have grown 
so much further and we can think a little bit   more about how to efficiently use our capital to 
get more returns than just over collateralization   so this talks a little bit about it there is some 
over collateralization in the Alchemix protocol   but it also uses the your collateral ratio or your 
collaterals to help you to earn some form of yield   so in that way it kind of offsets it quite a bit 
so we're going to talk about that later as well   and how I see Alchemix is really an evolution to 
what DSD and ESD is doing so DSD and ESD if you   remember is the Empty Set Dollar and Dynamic 
Set Dollar I think the mechanism was very   interesting where it uses the kind of government 
bond-like strategies to create and rebalance to   get the stability of the $1 now the problem 
with ESD and DSD although super innovative ideas   is that it was just level one to innovation 
you know they had a great kind of concept but   the execution was not as robust was not as good so 
I see Alchemix as a way to make it better as a way   to evolve to level two of what crypto bonds could 
be in terms of a stable coin so I thought that was   very interesting and I wanted to share that with 
you so let's go to part two stable coin creation   so why is it the fact that it's 200% over 
collateralized how does that help with making   sure that it's a no lose stable coin mechanism 
so if we had a lower collateralization ratio   loan repayments would take a lot longer right 
now with our current yield it's around two   years to get repaid but if we had like you know 
lower collateralization ratio that might take   five years it might take seven years might take 
10 years or something like that especially if   yields start dropping in Defi and I thought that 
that would be you know that's like a lifetime   especially in Defi and crypto and stuff like 
that so I think having such a long repayment   time is a little bit unrealistic a lot could 
happen in that mean time and the other thing   is that what people can do is they can like let's 
say you borrow alUSD then you sell your alUSD for   DAI then you put it into Alchemix then you borrow 
more alUSD and you can do this loop right now   because of our collateralization ratio means that 
you can basically lever your vault up to 2x if we   had a lower collateralization ratio this kind of 
recursive strategy could be exploited even more   and we don't think that would have a good 
effect on the system overall and it might   destabilize the peg because people would over 
leverage their vaults and stuff like that   so in order to you know for health of the 
system and for reasonable debt repayment times   we set the collateralization ratio to 200% how 
is stablecoin created firstly you use DAI to   create USD and now you're thinking okay DAI is 
basically 1 USD I’m giving USD to create USD   why don't I just use DAI in the first place 
right yeah that's true it works in a very   interesting way so the high level way is 
let's say I have a 100 DAI it's a $100   I give it to the Alchemix protocol and when I give 
a 100 DAI there I get to borrow 50% in alUSD to   the Alchemix USD so in the system one alUSD is 
always equals to 1 DAI and in this system I am   200% over collateralized right because I can only 
borrow 50% out so I’m 200% over collateralized   which is a lot more than MakerDAO because a 
Maker is 160% here is 200% so I get to borrow 50%   in alUSD and what is the protocol going to do the 
protocol takes my 100 DAI and it uses that 100 DAI   to generate yield so it takes the 100 DAI goes to 
stuff like YFI protocol actually they work with   yearn protocol deposits the DAI in yearn to get 
yDAI and it allows it to generate different kind   of interest and generate profit and yield from 
there so right now yearn is charging about 13%   APR on the yields generated based on whatever 
strategies that yearn finance is doing so when   you put 100 DAI in in general you can take 50 
alUSD which is equal equivalent to 50 DAI out   spend it wherever you want at the same time 
during that one year it generates about 13 DAI   out of your 100 DAI that you put in so that's the 
general idea and what it does is that it helps you   to pay off that debt or that amount borrowed so we 
have 100 DAI we took out 50 DAI we took out 50 DAI   in alUSD right so you have 50 remaining that you 
need to pay off so this entire system this entire   mechanism helps you to pay that 50 DAI off through 
this yield generation so this where the whole   capital efficiency comes in because your capital 
is being used to generate yields somewhere else   so how does it maintain stability because it's 
a stable coin after all price slippage happens   because there isn't enough liquidity or rather 
because it isn't one market maker doing all   the trades it's always trading with a liquidity 
pool so it's a pool of everyone's money in there   that's why any significant movement can cause 
quite a bit of price shock or price volatility to   any trade that's why you want to reduce such risks 
yeah if you use some different dex charting tools   like DEXTools is one that I really like and you go 
to like a pair and you can watch the trading feed   and a lot of times though you'll see like a little 
like red hat like hacker icon and next to a trade   and that'll signify that there was a sandwich 
attack so you can like see it and be like oh   wow that person just made you know $500 doing this 
attack and without risking any capital whatsoever   so you know it's cool and it makes me want to 
run one of these bots but at the same time it   kind of killed the idea for CheeseFI so went back 
to the drawing board and at this time our team   had expanded it wasn't just me and the CTO anymore 
we added a couple other smart contract developers   and another front-end developer added an analyst 
so the team was like at six people at this point   and we kept on iterating until finally we got 
to the Alchemix system and that kind of avoided   the whole AMM problem altogether and allowed 
us to not only you know deliver future yield   to you now up front but also we could do 
it in the form of a fungible stable token   here the big picture the general idea is that 
there are two big pools the first one is the   collateral pool so you have your DAI and you take 
your DAI put it into the collateral pool to get   alUSD out so that's the main mechanism right put 
DAI in get alUSD out then you have another pool   where you put alUSD in and you can get DAI 
out so these are two main pools the first   pool is like the collateral pool you put DAI 
in get alUSD out spend it anywhere you want   the other one is a transmuter pool where you put 
alUSD in and you get DAI out so that's the general   idea and now how does that work how does that 
help with the whole stabilization method right   good question so remember I told you one of 
the key important thing in this entire game   is that one DAI equals 1 alUSD 1 alUSD equals 
1 DAI so if you're in that situation sometimes   prices change right it's not always one for one 
so let's say 1 alUSD is now worth more than 1 DAI   let's say 1 alUSD is now worth $1.50 that's a 50% 
increase that's a lot of money right so how can   you benefit from that so people will put DAI into 
the collateral pool into the first pool you put   DAI in there and you get alUSD out and so because 
you put 100 DAI you will always get 50 alUSD out   because it's 50% collateral and now because 1 
alUSD is worth $1.50 then more people want to   do that and more people will turn their DAI into 
alUSD and increase the supply of alUSD and reduce   the prices back to $1 so this a general idea so 
when alUSD is more than $1 more people put DAI   in to get alUSD out trade it in a secondary market 
or trade it anywhere you want because alUSD will   always be equivalent to 1 DAI so that's when 
alUSD is more than $1 when alUSD is less than   $1 that's where you go to the transmuter pool and 
what you do is you take your alUSD you put it in   the transmuter pool and when the transmuter 
pool gets any returns harvest any yield in   DAI you can always trade 1alUSD for DAI so let's 
say now your alUSD is worth $0.80 instead of $1   and you don't want to spend it because it's 
not worth that much nobody's going to accept it   so you take your alUSD that's $0.80 
worth you put it in the transmuter pool   and once the transmuter pool generates yield and 
generates more DAI then you get to give them $0.80   worth of alUSD you get 1 DAI out which is worth 
$1 because it's always one for one in the system   so that's how it helps with stability when alUSD 
is more than $1 and when alUSD is less than $1   so where is the fee coming from the fee is coming 
from yearn so you're actually your debt is getting   repaid automatically through yearn every single 
time we harvest your debt goes down and there's   no interest on alUSD so that means I put 100 DAI 
in I take 50 alUSD out and that means whenever   yearn makes any profits any yield the yield comes 
in to pay off that 50 DAI that I’ve borrowed the   50 alUSD yes every single time that we harvest 
yield then that will go to paying off your loan   right now takes around two years for a max loan 
to be completely paid off yep but yep that's how   it works so for anyone who wants to gain from 
being part of Alchemix you either put DAI in   to borrow alUSD out and allow the system to 
generate enough yield to be paying off the   debt that you have so you effectively get 50% of 
the amount you put in that we repaid in two years   or the other way is when the transmuter is there 
and people put alUSD in to take DAI out yeah so if   you're using the transmuter the only 
reason to use it is if alUSD is off the peg   if it’s now off the peg just trade it on Curve 
it'll be faster it'll be instantaneous and the   other thing is that the transmuter actually has a 
beneficial effect to the DAI depositors in general   because the all the balance of the t transmuter is 
also farming yield so we have like 240 million DAI   in the transmuter and that's all farming yield 
and then we have like an additional around 160   million dollars or DAI in deposits in the vault so 
in fact we have 400 million DAI as principal but   that's only for 160 million DAI deposits because 
of that even though we're using yearn and yearn's   rates around 13% we can offer around 30% because 
of that extra principal that's being passed on   and the yield from that being passed on to our 
depositors and helping to repay their debts faster   so for all the yield that's coming from the vault 
is it all to the vault or part of it also goes   to the transmuter so the transmuter effectively 
gets two types of income stream or yield stream   one from the vault and one from excess from the 
vault and one from the transmuter itself yeah the   way it actually works is that we the transmitter 
has a vault adapter and so does the Alchemix vault   has a vault adapter as well the way we do it is 
we harvest the yield from the transmuter and then   that those yvDAI tokens so the DAI vault tokens 
then get sent over to the vault adapter for the   Alchemix contract and then that one gets harvested 
and when that gets harvested 90% of the yield   is used for debt repayments and being sent to 
the transmuter so those are one in the same   so if we have a hundred thousand dollars with the 
debt repayment then a hundred thousand dollars   goes to the transmuter and then 10% of that 
harvested yield goes to the DAO treasury we've   been averaging somewhere between around 150 to 200 
000 DAI per harvest which is a daily thing so our   DAO treasury is growing around $15 000 – 20 000 
dollars a day at this rate and debt repayment's   around $130 000 to $180 000 a day that's very 
good money or that's very good yields coming in   yes it's very good yield coming in so again 90% of 
the harvest goes from for all the harvest coming   in 90% of it goes to the Alchemix vault as was 
the transmuter vault is there a split between   is there a percentage split between those two no 
so imagine like you're in the Alchemix vault you   have a hundred thousand DAI in there you borrowed 
50 000 alUSD and a big harvest comes through and   let's say 500 of your alUSD debt gets paid off 
in that harvest right how do you determine that   how did you do so what happens is like that amount 
of DAI is like from the harvest is kind of spread   proportionally amongst everybody by the amount 
they have deposited into the Alchemix contract   and then that debt there is then deducted from 
your alUSD that is deducted from the ledger on   the app and then that DAI all of that DAI is sent 
to the transmuter which then becomes available for   transmutation and also boosts the yields in 
the system so it pays off debt first before   it goes to transmuter it's kind of one and the 
same the Alchemix takes care of the bookkeeping as   far as debts and credits and everything like that 
goes but since alUSD is our own coin we're not   borrowing it from anyone else we created it we can 
mint it we can burn it or at least the system can   whenever we like whenever we do a harvest we just 
delete that debt from your own personal ledger or   at least so we reduce it okay that alUSD isn't 
getting burned or anything but if someone then   wants to transmute the alUSD that they have 
in the transmuter then that burns the alUSD   and they can then receive that equal 
amount of DAI that they've burned in alUSD   got it so the first vault Alchemix vault is more 
of like a paper accounting whereas the transmuter   is where the actual more of the physically digital 
or digital asset would be so the Alchemix is where   you turn DAI into alUSD and the transmuters 
where you turn alUSD into DAI yes got it I know   it's very complicated it's very confusing it's 
something that's a little bit out there like but   the bookkeeping does work but I can't reassure 
you on that awesome if actually talking to you   help me explain it further on because like kind 
of like distinguishing the Alchemix vault as like   that's where you create alUSD and then or you 
know DAI to alUSD and then transmuters obviously   DAI just summing it up that simply is actually 
going to be very helpful for me going forward   yeah because I was trying to understand how it 
works as well because initially I thought that   the first Alchemix vault is where you change DAI 
to alUSD and then you have to pay some interest on   it just like ETH to DAI and then any yield comes 
in will be repaying that interest so you can   always change it back to your DAI immediately by 
closing your vault and then the other transmuter   is like an additional rewards pool where 
additional rewards just goes in but what you're   talking about it's a very different thing from 
what I understood so thanks for clearing that up   so one of the rewards in providing liquidity 
and using the system is the ALCX token what   can anyone what can people do with that token so 
ALCX right now is the governance token for our   platform we've had a few votes so far on snapshot 
and we have a developer and community multi-sig   wallet that's a five of seven multi-sig and we 
have four devs and three community members on   that wallet so we always need you know at least 
one community member to go along with the devs to   get anything done there's also a 24 hour time lock 
on that so there's some different security layers   to make sure that nobody from the team or the 
community wallet or the multi-sig can do anything   malicious and it'll be easily spottable if we do 
try to do something like that not that we would   you know I value Defi and Ethereum and being in 
the space it means the world to me I love it and   I would never endanger you know that because I’m 
being selfish or you know or a crook or something   like that so we're not gonna rug you guys but 
that won't be an issue anyway going forward   when we are working on our version two and with 
it we're going to be releasing Alchemix DAO and   that will get rid of the whole snapshot with a 
multi-sig wallet and turn it into a you know an   actual DAO that executes code and we won't have 
that kind of power anymore we're going to be   trying to decentralize in that respect fantastic 
that's a good that's a good shift I think everyone   starts a bit more in the centralized way 
just to get this infrastructure in place and   try to get the foundation right then it slowly 
decentralizes to allow the community to manage   that's like the perfect usual transaction if we're 
making any big changes we want to get the consent   of the community and the token holders before we 
do it and but for like minor decisions and things   that we just need to do and get done like but you 
know I honestly in my experience in Defi I’ve been   a Defi a long time I noticed that like voter 
fatigue kicks in like an apathy kicks in really   quickly and more so in projects that have votes 
that come up like every few days or every week   I start tuning out like I go to my Discord and 
see like 10 notifications from this project   what is going on here and like it becomes 
overwhelming I can't keep up with it so like   at that same rate like we've been trying to be 
governance limited like if there's something big   you know or something urgent we'll consult the 
community but we're not going to bug you guys   over little things like every day at least until 
the DAO is out that'll be the community deciding   everything at that point fantastic is there 
anything else you want to add so the ALCX token   yeah so right now that's being heavily 
incentivized so you can farm the alUSD 3   curve liquidity tokens you can farm ALCX with that 
you can farm it with the pool 2 you know which is   ALCX and ETH that's on Sushiswap you can also 
do single side staking with ALCX which will be   turned into the DAO so the DAO will combine 
getting ALCX rewards for depositing but you'll   also get revenue from the system as well so you'll 
get you know multiple income streams which is 10%   of yield coming in goes to the DAO right 
yes okay yeah so it'll get ALCX rewards and   more on top of it in the DAO so that should 
make it a more attractive hold going forward   turn into a cash flow token in addition to being a 
governance token it's also being integrated across   Defi you can use it as a collateral asset on 
Ruler Protocol Margin Swap Rari Capital Fuse Pool   Unit Protocol so you can borrow you know assets 
using ALCX across all those different things so   it has a little bit of a capital asset is being 
accrued to ALCX as well fantastic that's super   exciting so what's the difference between this 
and other kind of protocols this system was kind   of like a bond system like a currency bond system 
if you think about how what you're doing you're   actually giving your tokens your DAI you get to 
borrow some part out of it and you get to use   it right now and who is going to repay the amount 
of money borrowed is through the yields generated   in the future so what you're really bringing is 
you're bringing forward the future revenues earned   the future profits generated and you get to use it 
today again you've got 100 DAI you put 100 DAI in   the system of which you can borrow 50 alUSD out 
you can use it today so you effectively have 150   DAI worth of tokens then that 100 DAI that's in 
the collateral will help you to earn different   yield and help you to repay that 50 DAI out that 
50 alUSD you've borrowed so in that case that's   how you get to tap into the future profits 
generated and one of the big difference   is that there is real value inflation in the 
system remember one of the things that I keep   talking about in all the other protocols is that 
when we talk about inflation in the Defi space   we're talking about inflation in terms of real 
value inflation and not just monetary inflation   it's not just inflating your tokens it's not just 
inflating the number of tokens you have sure you   can keep doing that but what is supporting 
the price of your token you know you need to   have supply and demand basic economics with the 
supply side it's quite easy with the supply side   you just keep increasing the number of tokens out 
there but if you don't have the demand side of it   there is no what is substantiating that value 
of the new tokens being added into the system   there is none but here they do that they do that 
because with Alchemix when your collaterals are   being added into the system it's actually working 
for you it works for you in yearn to get different   kind of returns then it gets added into the system 
and you can trade your alUSD out and get DAI   so in that situation you're adding real value 
into the system real economic value into the   system instead of just increasing and inflating 
the supply of tokens so I thought that was a very   interesting thing that you know I’ve been talking 
about it for so many videos now and an example of   a protocol doing that would be quite interesting 
the other thing that's interesting is that it's   backed by correlated assets so there are a lot 
of other stable coin systems out there like Maker   like Frax like FEI you know you're creating a 
lot of tokens you're creating stable tokens but   it's backed by an uncorrelated asset like ETH or 
wrapped BTC or like YFI token whatever kind of   tokens with this system with Alchemix it's backed 
with 100% correlated assets which is DAI and alUSD   which is worth the same thing so that is a kind 
of a different system people you know they always   know that I’m guaranteed that I can get 1 DAI 
for my alUSD one to one now in a situation where   let's say the peg is broken and the transmuter 
runs out of its reserves okay at that point then   if you want to use the transmuter to convert 
your alUSD to DAI it might take longer   right now it's pretty instantaneous because 
the amount of people who are staking in the   transmuter is relatively low it's actually less 
than the amount of yield that we make daily so   it's very easy for people to use the transmuter 
if they want to and for their position to fill up   but in the case where we you know didn't have 
our peg broke and the transmuter was drained   then it would basically take however long 
it takes for the yield to drip into the   transmuter for that alUSD to DAI conversion 
to take place so while we're on peg it's like   as if we're stable coin if we break the peg then 
it's more like alUSD becomes a bond I understand   but you always have the guarantee that it will 
be redeemable for DAI one to one it might take   a longer time but right now it's instantaneous 
that you can just take it one for one understand   so okay theoretically it should be impossible 
to lose money using Alchemix you might lose a   little time value in the worst case scenario but 
you shouldn't lose even one penny I understand   so how is it like a bond how is it like one of 
these ESD or DSD systems well with ESD and DSD   you realize that when prices are below $1 what do 
they do ESD and DSD empty Set Dollar and Dynamics   Set Dollar they will take your tokens they'll keep 
it but onto different kind of epochs and then once   this value increase the value goes to you because 
you get to keep your tokens that's a general idea   and the general idea is good now the problem is 
when I say that when the additional tokens created   in the ESD system which is like the bond system 
when additional tokens are created they're created   from thin air they're not created they're not 
backed by any value so when it's created from thin   air it's probably worth nothing and when it's 
worth nothing it's given to the user and the user   now has a lot more of nothing so and then when 
it's nothing they would dump it and it worsen the   situation there are also a lot of whale activities 
that can do that the new token inflation the   supply inflation is not backed by anything whereas 
in this system it's quite different in this system   the new supply added into the space is backed by 
the yields generated through reinvestment of your   collateral so that's quite of a difference and I 
think that's a good way forward how it's like a   bond system is really like how government bonds 
work with government bonds you basically give   money to the government and the government will 
take your money they promise you x percentage to   return to you and they will use that money to go 
and build roads build housing improve the economy   and then the economy grows in this situation 
it's a smaller scale where you give money to   Alchemix Alchemix forwards you the repayment 
saying that this what you can use right now   and I’ll use the collaterals that you give me 
to go and generate some yield and it'll be added   back into the system after so it's kind of like 
a bond system in a different kind of situation   or different kind of context a much smaller 
context and this a bit more robust than the   whole ESD and DSD system which is basically one of 
my opinions and thoughts about it so firstly it's   a very novel idea it is all about yield generation 
real yield yield through value being generated   so when we talk about capital efficiency this 
mechanism these collaterals these capital that   you're giving to the system is helping you to earn 
something it's being allocated to add value or to   create value in the system and the way to create 
value could be via yearn which is through lending   on various kind of platforms or generating 
yield in very different ways and that's why   Defi is like this little Lego brick right you have 
different kind of protocols doing different things   you mesh them up together and create new kind of 
products and services offered to retail people so   that's the general idea it generates yield and 
use this yield to substantiate any new supply   inflation in the system it is also an upgrade 
of the ESD bond mechanism that I’ve talked about   similar to the bond mechanism of ESD where it adds 
in new kind of assets into new inflation into the   system but instead of supply inflation it's adding 
value inflation or price inflation into the system   through the yields generator however there is a 
limitation and this the limitation that is the   common argument that you can keep saying in 
the collateral backed stable coins it could   be on-chain off-chain doesn't matter as long as 
it's backed by collaterals this will always be a   limitation because this was the limitation 
when we moved away from the gold standard   remember the Bretton Woods gold standard long 
time ago when the US economy started when a   lot of central banks started they backed their 
currency with gold when the financial market just   first started that's like hey that's a good idea 
I like that let's continue doing that because gold   is safe people use gold and there's a value 
that people give to gold which is quite high   so with that you can continuously print money and 
allow the system to grow so that's all very good   but you realize that the economy is so much more 
than gold the economy can scale so much faster so   much quicker and in such a big volume that there 
will not be enough gold in the world to back the   economic value that we are creating in our economy 
and that is the biggest limitation to collateral   backed coins I really think that the future 
is not about 100% or 200% especially in this   system it's 200% backed which is a huge amount 
of money a huge amount of capital inefficiency   yes the capital is earning money for you because 
you're using the collaterals to be earning money   for you but 200% over collateralization that's 
very expensive in terms of opportunity cost so   the over collateralization is quite an issue with 
capital inefficiency because number one it's gonna   be hard to scale and number two it's actually 
very costly when you basically have so many   opportunities in the bull market today the 100 DAI 
that you're giving to the system could be earning   like 10x putting that amount of money in other 
protocols so that's a small amount of like some   limitations that I see but still this a great idea 
and I think this a super cool interesting system   I don't have any stakes in that I’m just I just 
think it's interesting and what does it share   with you guys so if you're interested in more 
things like that remember to check out the book   that we have the token economics textbook it's 
been used in universities now and I’m working   on a version two upgrade so that it can be more 
suitable for MBAs instead of undergrads we also   have a Discord so follow us on Discord follow us 
on Twitter you can get access to more information   we are also on SubStack we are also on Patreon 
we're on LinkedIn we're on a lot of different   social media platforms so if you're interested 
in other social media platforms just Google   Economics Design or just check the links out below 
till then I’ll see you in the next episode bye

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