Decentralized Finance: The Future of Currencies – Robert Kiyosaki and Jeff Wang

(upbeat music) – [Narrator] This is "The
Rich Dad Radio Show," the good news and bad news about money. Here's Robert Kiyosaki. – Hello, hello, hello, Robert Kiyosaki, with "The Rich Dad Radio Show," the good news and bad news about money and today we have a very important show for all you people that
hate Bitcoin or love Bitcoin or wanna know more about crypto or is it time for you to gain but more importantly
what's happening in it. What's going on. I barely use my cell
phone, so I know nothing so don't expect anything from me. So I have a very fantastic
guest is Jeff Wang, he's been with us many times and he's going to go into what's happening and what's going on
inside this massive world of cryptocurrency. So welcome to the program, Jeff. – Hey there, how's it going? – Good, good, good. First of all, you're in San
Francisco and I was asking you about… I used to work on Market
Street in the Embarcadero when the 60s when I was
working for Standard Oil.

I keep hearing now that there's
people living on the streets and taking dumps on the
streets and all that stuff, you said that was still
going on for a while? – Yeah, it's all over the place even in front of Facebook's building, there's still homeless people. They're cleaning it up,
they're doing a better job of putting up fences and building shelters and migrating them but, again, it's still a problem in San Francisco. – It doesn't solve the problem, it just kinda moves them
out of the neighborhood. – Yeah, pretty much. – Jeez. So it's kind of like Washington DC but they've put up fences and all that. So, Jeff, is that the future? We're going to put fences
around everything (laughs)? – I think the systemic issue
is kind of income inequality. So basically if the money
keeps going to one side you're gonna have all
these people left behind and in San Francisco it's very evident, you can see that happening here. – Right. – That's not what the
show is about (laughs). – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, but it affects all of us because I've never trusted the dollar and I started off as a
silver guy, then gold, and now I have Bitcoin but I just don't trust my government, man, that's what it comes down to. It doesn't make a
difference if Trump was in or Biden was in, we're
still getting screwed. And what's happening to, in
my opinion, income inequality is very simply that you
have one thing going on is technology. Technology is wiping out
jobs all over the place, and it's gonna increase
with artificial intelligence and all that like my
friends who are accountants and lawyers and doctors they say, "Pretty soon we don't need as many of us because blockchain can
handle a lot of that." So, this idea of job security for life, and you can stay with a company forever is kind of obsolete thinking.

And then the second problem,
so one is technology but second is corruption of the US dollar. Instead of solving the problem, they just kept printing more of it so the debt just keeps going up, but it makes it harder and
harder for the guy in the… Well, they're literally in
the street today to survive because they don't have the job skills, they don't have the skills and
all this to earn the income that'll get 'em off the streets and so it's more than systemic, this is global transformation
right in front of us.

So what do you think about that? – Yeah, I think especially
with the stimulus plans, we didn't actually expect
from a valuation model, how do you value Bitcoin
and other cryptocurrencies? We didn't expect the pandemic to create even a third stimulus coming, right? So what's happening is there's
so much money being printed that there's a lot of excess money as well and that excess money does
go back to the stock market, it does go back to other investments here. So we're seeing now is like
with low interest rates you see the stock market
at all time highs, you see cryptocurrencies
at all time highs, you see real estate, the fastest
buying growth in six years.

So what's happening with
crypto is there's nowhere else to invest money right now
but within subsets of crypto there are ecosystems that are still, I wouldn't say undervalued,
I'd say superheated but there's still yield
coming from these ecosystems that are being built on
cryptocurrencies right now. And that's what our
research and our predictions are heading towards in
the cryptocurrency area. – Right, so the reason we
would like to have you back is because all the "Rich Dad Radio" a lot of guys on our
program are real estate guys or entrepreneurs and all this but the question is, where
do you put your money? I started off years ago
saying cash is trash and it is becoming trash. The more that artificial
intelligence and technology makes things more efficient,
prices should keep coming down but the fed keeps pumping it up and so we have the guys in
the middle, the people that…

Lesson number one in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is the rich don't work for money 'cause the moment you
do that you're screwed. So it's coming true right now. It really deeply concerns me, especially now that I'm going, "Oh my God, what I was saying 25 years
ago is coming true today." And that's why people
have got to understand what goes on in your head,
because that's the future. Now the future of money
lies, in my opinion, in crypto or Bitcoin and blockchain. So what do you have to say about that? – Yeah, so we can talk for hours on this, so I'll try to summarize
it as much as I can. Let's start with Bitcoin. Just a quick summary to
first-time listeners, Bitcoin is a decentralized ledger. You can think of like an Excel sheet that nobody actually owns but
everybody that has like a cell you can control the money coming out only and you can receive money.

What's also interesting about Bitcoin is it's not fixed supply,
very deflationary though. As more Bitcoins are minted it
gets less and less inflation and I think it stops
around 21 million Bitcoin. And it's not pegged
against anything, right. You can say Bitcoin today is
$37,000 but it doesn't matter, Bitcoin is it's self, it's not
pegged to any world currency and as a result, if you have
US dollar getting printed like crazy, Bitcoin actually
is inversely correlated, so basically as a dollar value goes down Bitcoin actually goes up. And what we're seeing right
now is hundreds of billions of dollars being acquired
by financial institutions. Grayscale being a very prominent one, they own $20 billion of Bitcoin right now. A lot of other funds are
buying in the hundred million dollar increments. But what's happening is
there's not much supply left of Bitcoin actually and
it's causing an overcorrection of the kind of hedge
against the dollar thesis. I think everyone agrees that it is a hedge against the dollar but at some point it might
be overcorrecting it. And then as the vaccines are allowed and the dollar gets stronger, that thesis is gonna get turned around.

So that's at least my view on Bitcoin. And, again, if we have a third stimulus, we probably haven't even seen the top yet. Third stimulus would again
further devalue the dollar and further give Bitcoin that hedge up. So even the $50,000 range
that you predicted a while ago which I thought was a little bit high. Even the $50,000 range of Bitcoin
is not out of the question at all right now.
– No. I'm not judging Bitcoin, I'm judging the stupidity
of our government. And being a real estate
guy, when I look at how much debt is going to default
and the question is, when all those office
buildings around San Francisco can't pay their rent,
who's gonna bail 'em out? That's why I put my 50,000 bet. It was a bet against the economy,
it wasn't a bet on Bitcoin and I'm betting they're gonna print.

If they don't print, we're screwed anyway. That's kinda my philosophy, it's not a very sophisticated philosophy but I'd rather have Bitcoin
than dollars right now that's all I'm saying. – So, I want to talk about
what's going on with Ethereum though 'cause I think
this is pretty crazy. So, just another summary
for everyone else, Ethereum took that
decentralized ledger idea, they added a programmable
logic on top of that so people can actually
develop code on blockchain.

So, what you have is decentralized code as well as a currency. The first use case is always currency because you can take
financial applications and put a value on it and then
transfer it over the chain. But Ethereum in 2018 came
up with the ICO concept, you can mint new tokens
on top of Ethereum, and that became a huge
fundraising vehicle in 2018 which ultimately resulted
in a big bubble pop because there was not much utility, there was actually not much
adoption coming from that.

2020 though has changed everything. By the way, just to give a reference, Ethereum is up 700% since last year and Bitcoin is up 300% since last year. So that's just kind of
reference of what's going on with the divergence of
Bitcoin and Ethereum. By the way, Bitcoin and Ethereum, always very tightly coupled. – Right.
– Right now though. Sorry, you were going to say something? – No, no, no, you know, when people say, "What are you doing?" I say, "Well, just buy it all." I have gold, silver, Bitcoin, Ethereum. Like I said, I'm just betting
against my government. That's all I'm doing,
the stupidity of 'em. – So if you wanna bet against
the government it's Bitcoin if you wanna invest in the
technology, it is Ethereum. – Why is that?
– There are a lot of projects within Ethereum that I think are very promising as well. – So, Ethereum has some use
to it is what you're saying.

– Yes. There was a lot of ideas, a
lot of technology, scaling, all those ideas came out in 2018 and 2019. The first thing that really
got adopted was in 2020 and that was called the
decentralized exchange but someone or a couple
of projects made use of a concept called
automated market making. And basically what that means
is you can deposit money in pools and then people can
trade out of those pools. So, at any moment in time, I
can just go on, use my wallet that has any number of tokens
and swap it with other tokens.

And there's always liquidity. And that concept in 2020 exploded. It got to the point where
there was more volume on decentralized exchanges
than centralized exchanges. So 2020 was like the year of
DeFi, decentralized exchanges. 2021 is going to have a
whole new set of services that we can talk about as well. – Geez, you already lost me
a long time ago (laughs). So, anyway. So, Bitcoin.
– Like today, you have to log in, right? You have to login to
your E-Trade, Ameritrade to trade a stock, right?
– Right. – That whole concept is going away now. With blockchain, you can
represent stocks on blockchain and trade it and you
always have liquidity.

– So are you saying, so
E-Trade, those guys are toast? – It's trending that way. Centralized exchange
volume is starting to rival the decentralized exchange volume in the crypto space for now. – Wow. So going old school, now
what happens to stocks then? – I think stocks will always exist 'cause they have fundamentals behind it. They have actual equity
and ownership behind it. What's happening in 2021, is
a concept called synthetics. So, real life assets are
being represented on tokens, whether that's gold,
whether that's the US dollar or whether it's even like
Apple or Tesla stock, that's all being represented on blockchain through different means of…

And I don't wanna get too complicated, but different means of
price feeds and staking and collateralization. So, basically you can
take all these assets, you make them secure and
then you make them tradable on decentralized exchanges. And that means anybody with a
wallet can trade these assets and they can trade at any time, they don't have to log in anything as long as they have the
wallet, they can trade.

And that's what's happening. – It sounds like to me,
that's what brought down the real estate market was
a thing called derivatives. So, they would take a mortgage and then they would chop it up
and sell it to other people. – Yes, yes. – And so they're now taking crypto and then making derivatives out of it, or they could do it with anything. – They can, yes, there's actually. – Gold in it. – Again, so crazy in 2021 because there is a derivatives
market forming as well.

You can do options
trading, you can do Forex exchange is getting
launched soon with INJ. So there's a lot of different projects that are popping up. And these projects, by the way,
are where all the yield is. So, a lot of these synthetic
projects are up about 500% just in the last three months alone because people already invested
in Bitcoin and Ethereum, they need other places
to now put that money. And then one of those
areas is the synthetics that we're talking about right now. – So, what holds it all
together then is blockchain. – [Jeff] Yep. – Because blockchain is the contract. That's what I understand it. – Yes, blockchain makes
it not just secure, but transparent and then
you can audit the code. You can see everything is reasonable, it's not suspicious
because it's on blockchain. – Yeah, so the way I understand blockchain which doesn't work in the
old world of real estate, gold, silver and all that was you never knew what those
guys were doing with it.

There was no transparency
in the Fed or Wall Street. And so what blockchain does is it gives… It's a decentralized system. And everybody's a part of it. It's not like the Fed is in charge of it. – [Jeff] Exactly. – Is that kind of it? – And before people just
weren't using it, right. You could say it's
decentralized, but it's slower. And it's hard to put up
some new infrastructure to get it working. That that was a problem in 2017 to 2019. – Yeah. That will be solved 'cause
you guys will speed it up fast as you can. – Yeah, so the speeding issue
is being solved right now. And I think the barriers of entry are being eliminated as well too.

– Yeah, because you guys don't
have government regulation. – Well, I would say it's
more like the software has made it much more intuitive to use, more intuitive to start things up. – If I was to go and try
and change the system of Wall Street, let's say, there'd be a lot of
guys who would be upset 'cause they're making too
much money the way it is. Why are you going to come in here? You'd have to go to
Congress and the Senate and make all these changes.

You guys are making
these changes on the fly just because I think you
guys trust blockchain you don't trust human beings. – I never thought of that. I think it's almost
impossible to pick winners that will be the same winners
in three years from now. – That's what I'm worried about. – Because blockchain moves so fast. – Yeah.
– Yeah. – And that's only the speed
of your thoughts right now.

– Yeah, if someone deploys
a contract that looks great and everybody jumps over
and uses that instead you might have… There's no one safe really in blockchain. Like you might have a project
that looks great today and then another one
comes out that's better then everybody starts
using that one instead. It's kinda like the app store, right? Like the Apple app store
or Android app store and everybody can just deploy
the apps whenever they want. But right now there's
actual financial value tied to these apps and it's crazy because
they're all representative of real life financial services and they're all being
represented on the blockchain.

– Kinda reminds me of the old days when I was in the disco
running around time, there'd be this one disco
open up or this nightclub and everybody'd be there. Then about two months later (laughs) some other guy had opened another one, everybody was over there
and the other guy went broke (laughs) that's kinda what
it reminds me of right now. And that's why it's
important people listen to this "Rich Dad" radio program
so you can have a concept of how fast this is moving. So we'll be right back, Jeff, thank you. Welcome back, Robert Kiyosaki, with "The Rich Dad Radio Show," the good news and bad news about money. You can listen to "The
Rich Dad" radio program, anytime, anywhere on iTunes,
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We archive them for one
reason, we're a purely an educational company,
we have nothing to sell. So, we archive it so you
can listen to this again because if you listen
to this one more time, you'll pick up twice as much because repetition is how we really learn. And then if you have friends,
family or business partners who need to hear this show, get together, listen to it and discuss it. So if you all listen to
it and you discuss it, your intelligence or your
understanding will quantify. 'Cause what we're talking about today with Bitcoin and Ethereum
and the cyber is invisible. The brain is designed to see the physical, the mind is designed to see the invisible. And so for people who are brain oriented, they're screwed right now (laughs).

And you have to go into your mind to see the relationship between,
let's say, gold and Bitcoin or Bitcoin and Ethereum
'cause it's in your mind, it's not in your brain. And that's the tough part right now for many old guys like me. So I'm just grateful, I have
a lot of gold, silver, Bitcoin and Ethereum and I don't
get into the argument. Peter Schiff always he's
arguing about gold and silver. Max Keiser is arguing back. And I go, "Why the heck you guys arguing? Just get as much as you can right now because the government's screwed. We're screwed. Our whole economy is screwed. We're so deeply in
debt, we can't even s… It's sinking into like quicksand right now and you're arguing about which one, should I have gold or silver or Bitcoin.

Just buy something." So, Jeff what do have
to say say about that? Give a message to all the
old guys like me out there. – I think definitely it's
good to be diversified. I think Bitcoin and Ethereum,
if you hold those two you're kind of holding
the index of crypto. The health of crypto, I
would summarize it as. Because if Ethereum goes down, I would expect all the other
crypto assets to go down and vice versa, if it Ethereum goes up, I'd expect these other crypto assets that we've talked about
to shoot up even more. It's just kind of like a
derivative of Ethereum, it swings wider. – So, a derivative's an
interesting phenomenon. You've gone into the mind now. You have this piece of real estate, the market's just the derivative. And then when they put MBSs,
mortgage backed securities, that was a derivative on a derivative.

And that's why when it
collapsed in 2008, it collapsed. So that's why I'm listening carefully. I think right now I'll stay
with Bitcoin, Ethereum, gold, silver and hang tight in there. But for the young guys who… You guys grew up in the area
of technology, I didn't. So your minds are different. You can see the invisible when
I'm still in the brain phase, where I can only see what
I can see, touch and feel. So anyway, what is this thing called DeFi? – So DeFi is short for
decentralized finance. Basically it's mimicking
real life financial services on blockchain. And with Bitcoin, the main
mimic of financial service there is just currency, right? It's a currency and it could be traded. Now with 2020, basically
the decentralized finance focused on borrowing and lending first so people could deposit
money for interest rates and paying an interest rate on top. And also we talked about
the automated market makers which was the liquidity so
people can trade stuff as well. Now, what we're seeing in 2021 are these new developments
of other financial services.

So, you're starting to
see options trading, you're seeing insurance,
you're seeing hedging. You even see hedge funds,
like Yearn Finance, that ecosystem is really covering a lot of the different ideas in finance and basically all these
things are being developed and represented on-chain. So, these are all financial services decentralized on
blockchain that you can use if you have a wallet and that's it. – So excuse me for being an
old guy but it sounds to me you guys are mimicking
the existing system. – Yes. I think most of the
influence and the ideas come from existing services but I've seen some creative things like if you purchase Ethereum for example, it might automatically
execute a put option for you, all on-chain. So that's just one idea
that's very interesting, but it's not really common in
practice in the real world. – Well, so anyway, (laughs) that's. – And, again, I think right now, things are very hard for
people that don't know about all the new stuff
that's coming in crypto. Over time it will eventually become… The barriers of entry
will always get easier. So like right now you see PayPal, you can buy Bitcoin and
Ethereum off PayPal.

You will eventually see PayPal offer these same financial services
that connect to these chains or they might offer these
tokens that are representative of these projects on
these other exchanges. – So PayPal could become a JP Morgan offering all these financial services. – Goldman Sachs, by the way, just announced that they
needed to get into this space. So, it's more like financial
services are trying to get more into blockchain.
– Oh, they have to. – Rather than blockchain
trying to break into finance. – I understand that. I mean, they have to come your direction. Just like JP Morgan I think
they paid $95 billion fine for manipulating the gold market. When those criminals get into blockchain. All I understand about blockchain, it's more secure and more
transparent and less manipulable than what JP Morgan and
Goldman Sachs were doing.

Is that your understanding too? – Yeah, I think if we take a step back, blockchain, again, nobody
owns the infrastructure. There's no central bank,
there's no country, a bunch of different servers are out there running at the same time and
they all own the same code, the same chain, the same history. So it's almost impossible to come in and then break the system or develop a new code that
like catastrophically ruins the whole ecosystem. So what that means is you
can build new apps on it. You can build new services. And there are malicious
services on there, for sure. But overall things that work,
the things that are verified become adopted and you have
this kind of world computer where everybody can go in
and create their own app that everyone could use. And again, it moves fast
because something works or something works better,
everyone migrates to that, everyone uses that service instead. – So let me give you my logic system 'cause I'm really old guy and
I looked at this whole thing and I just didn't trust my
government, that was it.

I didn't trust Wall Street. I took three companies public, and every time I did that, I got nauseous. I just got sick at how they
manipulate, lie, cheat, steal. So that's why I stayed
out of the stock market. It cost me a lot because I refused to jump
into the den of thieves or where I didn't know who
was screwing who out there and I stayed in real estate and
I stayed as an entrepreneur, things that I could control
and I had management over.

But it sounds like to me
and correct me if I'm wrong that what blockchain did
to it is it brought trust, a little bit more trust and
transparency and less criminal, not criminal but you guys would
jump over anybody in there who was screwing with the system, right? – Yeah, and I think the key
takeaway is transparency. Everyone could read each other's code, everyone could help develop and vote on different governance decisions. And then even things
that other people build can work in conjunction with
other people's ecosystems. And I call it ecosystem
because maybe it's just a piece of code, but
if it's a piece of code that interacts with a
lot of other applications and then those have not just
financial but also economic experimental situations
that happen from that, then you start forming these
ecosystems around blockchain that have like billions of dollars getting poured into in and out of it.

So, again, the key word
is transparency and trust but, like I said, there
are malicious intent actors in the blockchain space as well. – There always will be.
– Yeah. – I listen to these socialists who say, "Why can't we all live together happily?" And I said, "So why don't you
just don't lock your doors to see how happy you are (laughs)." There's always somebody who's
gonna come and screw you. So that is fantasy world
but I understood blockchain has a little bit more
of a contractual system that you guys control the contract. – Right, exactly. And right now, and this
is again, another topic. There is another project
called Polkadot right now which is very similar to where Ethereum was in 2017 and 2018. Polkadot has that ecosystem now. I think it's very important to understand is anybody can launch a coin, anybody can launch a blockchain project but what really matters
that we're seeing right now is that ecosystem.

Do you have a service that can fulfill on-chain transactions,
that can bring wallets, that can read what's on the chain but do you also have other
services for like testing and for bringing apps
online and all that stuff. So, what I'm seeing now is
Polkadot is actually starting to show that ecosystem exists and it's really catching steam right now. A lot of the smaller
startup projects in there are starting to multiply.

They were worth like a million dollars now they're like 10
million, $20 million now within the span of the
last few months only. So, right now it does seem
like Ethereum and Bitcoin, they're only up 100% in the
last, like two months, right? Like only up 100% is
really crazy to think about whereas all these other
projects are coming in and they're going up like 10X and that's because now, the
stock market nowhere to go, let's go to Bitcoin and Ethereum. Now we're in Bitcoin and
Ethereum nowhere to go, let's go to what other
potential stuff is happening. But like I said, as we
discussed this whole hour is there is a ton of
stuff happening in crypto and most people don't know
about it, which is crazy. – [Robert] Yeah, because we
have a brain and we have a mind and the brain can see
what the what the eye can see, touch and feel. And the mind can only
see what's invisible.

And so you guys are
operating in the invisible and that makes it hard for somebody who's been playing with gold
and silver and real estate. The mind is not geared
for the invisible as much. This is the other question,
when you say ecosystem, what does that mean to you? – I would say it's a set
of services and developers that all support each other but if there is a barrier to entry that barrier of entry is solved somehow.

So somebody has come up with a way to make it easier to do
something that is necessary for that platform to run. I know it's very generic what I just said but basically it's a set of
services that work together that make all the
barrier of entry go away. – Okay, couple of more questions, so, I'll hold Polkadot for a while. Way back when, in the 2000s,
that was 21 years ago, they had the dot-com area blew up. The only ones that survive
are like I guess Facebook and Amazon, and there was and everybody was
starting a dot-com company back in 1999 and 2000 and all this and it all collapsed down,
only the real survives which was Amazon and those guys. Is the same thing going to
happen with crypto money? – Absolutely. I think things are overheated right now. And I think this is all a
result of lots of stimulus being pumped in, lots of
the stock market being up.

Right now, there's no signal that it's going down anytime soon. With the third stimulus coming, there's no reason for it to go down unless dollar gets stronger is where I see the red flags will be when
the dollar gets stronger or if the government
steps in and they say, "Hey, you're not allowed
to use this wallet unless you identify who owns it." Which is what FinCEN
actually proposed last month. – Who did? – FinCEN. – Who is that? – It's just another government authority that regulates financial services. – It's a US government? – It's US government, yeah. – Are they specialized in
crypto or are they old school? – I think any financial services, they do, they'll make policy over.

I think what's also important is the Office of the Comptroller. It's another regulatory
body in the government. They actually approved
on-chain transactions for stable coins though. So you do have kind of red
flag regulatory actions but you also have ones
that kind of accept crypto. That was a huge call
saying that stable coins, which just means $1, by the way, stable coin is $1 on Ethereum, let's say, that can be accepted as a settlement. So, there are regulatory actions
that are making blockchain more standard, but
again, like as you said, will there be some event
that causes everything to crash down again or correct again? And the two things that I would
say are regulatory actions, or strengthening of the dollar.

And those are the two
things I would look out for if I was watching for
price action changes. – Okay, and not too long ago, I think Bitcoin was getting up to my $50 line, dropped, I think, $15,000 or something. What caused that? – By the way, 30% swings in
crypto are entirely normal. Just wanna make sure that
everybody is aware of that. The volatility is something.
– Well, you gotta be young otherwise you have a cardiac
on that one then (laughs). – Yeah, and in our newsletter
we actually have strategies to counteract that. Whether it's stop losses or taking profits at the opportune times. But, I think the main
takeaway is that crypto is a very volatile asset. We have had days where in
DeFi, in the fall of last year, it dropped 70% in two days because the inflation
was getting out of hand. And people kinda learned
from that mistake as well. So, just to make sure that
precaution is out there. If you get into crypto,
you do have to understand it is a wild ride and there's huge swings in both directions.

So, Polkadot we talked about it earlier but it is a new standalone blockchain. So, Ethereum has its own network
has its own DeFi services and all that. Polkadot is another standalone chain. Its intent is to connect
different chains together. So, instead of a single
ledger or a single history, a single block of code that everybody can write to,
it's actually a more like a hub of different chains that
connect to each other. – So, how would a guy like
me even hear about Polkadot? You'd probably say, just stay out, right? You're too old for this stuff (laughs). – No, if you want to invest in startups or you want to invest in ideas or things that could
potentially become standard. The standard of real life services you want to know about these things. You wanna know about these
developments of new projects and new startups that you can
invest in that can explode, I guess it's the summary.

But Polkadot is showing the
signs Ethereum was showing about three years ago where it's new, it's got a lot of ecosystem,
a lot of apps supporting it, a lot of good developers
and a lot of potential. That's why I wanted to at
least bring that one up out of all of the other
projects that are going on. – So, how does a person stay abreast of… Do you run a service for
this or is there a way of… In the old days there
was newsletter services 'cause I was studying gold
mines and silver mines. – I do. So, I run a newsletter
called RocketFuel Crypto and it is a monthly newsletter
but also has weekly videos and weekly newsletters as well. And we try to keep everyone up to date as to what's going on in the space.

– So, how do they get in
touch with RocketFuel? – So the website is And if you want to get
involved it is a wild ride and a lot to invest, a lot to stomach. This is what's happening already. The stock market is kind of stagnant, it's kind of at a very peculiar place. And then even Bitcoin and Ethereum are kind of in a peculiar place as well.

And I think this newsletter
has kinda opened your eyes to the other possibilities in crypto and a lot of the other events
happening in the space. – Is there a charge for your newsletter? – Right now it's 47 a month. We actually think that
is a lot of value for it so we're kind of rethinking
about the model there but for now it's $47 a month. – You're thinking about
raising your price. – It's not up to me. There is a team that
thinks about the economic consequences of doing that
but yeah that is happening. – Okay, so when guys
like the Winklevoss twins and Max Keiser say Bitcoin's
gonna go 400, 100, 300,000, what goes through your brain? – I think it's such a complicated question to say that it's gonna
go to 100 or 300,000 is to simplifying it. Like you have to say, "If
the dollar keeps devaluing then it has the potential to go that way." If there's policies that come
out that support blockchain and blockchain adoption and support then that could push those
currencies up to 300K.

That would be how I'd answer it. – But in the current state.
– So it's possible. – Again, all those things
I just said have to happen. Adoption, regulatory certainty, you need a lot of things to happen for those things to go up that high. But at the current state, I
don't think it's very likely for it to go to 100K. – So it's like saying, "Well,
Santa Claus might be coming." (Jeff titters) – Yeah, I think obviously
they hold a lot of Bitcoin and they want it to go up so they're going to say that,
but they do have a point. If there is uncertainty in the dollar then Bitcoin's range of
outcomes is very wide. That is how I would describe it. – Can somebody knock Bitcoin
out of the top position? – I think Bitcoin will always
be near the top position. Ethereum will probably outpace it. We already saw that this year.

700% gains in Ethereum
versus 300% in Bitcoin. But I do think Bitcoin
will always have a… Because it was the first mover and because right now financial
institutions hold so much, they're gonna wanna make
sure that it remains the gold standard of crypto. And I think Ethereum
will be the gold standard of the technology. So, the application's utility that's where Ethereum will
kinda have to prove itself if it's gonna beat Bitcoin. – Would you say that Bitcoin is like gold and Ethereum's like silver? – I would not. I would actually say Bitcoin is like gold and Ethereum is like the S&P 500. – Oh, is that right? – [Jeff] Yeah. – Why not silver? – I think silver there is very
tight correlation as well. But if you were to pick one
asset in the crypto space that'd be Litecoin, which
is a fork of Bitcoin and that acts more like silver to Bitcoin.

– So there's a thing called
Litecoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin. – There's so many, there's thousands. We're not getting into all of them. Litecoin is just a fork of Bitcoin. It has some better transaction speeds and it's actually more
of a sandbox for Bitcoin, but we don't have to get into Litecoin. I just wanna say Ethereum
represents many services that are being developed which I think represents the S&P 500, which is like a lot of
companies represent the economy. So that's why I'd say
Ethereum is like the S&P 500. – So, Jeff, I think you can
just raise your price now on because this field is exploding right now and if you don't know what's
going you can get sideswiped. But anyway, thank you
always for doing your best to simplify it for everybody
like me to understand it but it's changing so fast right now. When I look at what's coming
up from the real estate side, how many of these projects
are gonna collapse and then we have our
pensions are gonna collapse.

That's why I'm into Bitcoin and Ethereum, and I'm into gold and silver,
I just don't trust the dollar. It comes down to that. So anyway, thank you very much, Jeff. And I appreciate it. – Thank you. – When we come back, we'll
have a final discussion as to que paso, what's happening? We'll be right back. Welcome back, Robert Kiyosaki, with "The Rich Dad Radio Show," the good news and bad news about money. I wanna thank Jeff Wang
and, please stay in touch with them. (Robert chuckles) There's too much going on to not be in touch with that young man. Anyway, listen to the "The
Rich Dad" radio program anytime, anywhere on
iTunes, Android, or YouTube and please give us a
review anytime you wish. And all of our podcasts are
archived on

We archive it because
we don't sell anything. We just basically want
you to learn something and repetition is how you learn. So if you're listening to
this go to, listen to this program again,
you'll learn twice as much but if you sit down and
discuss it with friends, family and business associates, your
understanding will quantum. And that's why we have
"The Rich Dad Radio Show." My age, it was way over my head, but it's not an excuse not to
do my best to understand it.

So with that, Sarah our producer here, what did you think, Sara? (Sara laughing) – [Sara] Where do I start? We've talked recently with Simon
Dixon who is a Bitcoin guy, Raoul Pal who I think he's
a little bit of everything but he really made a case for Bitcoin. And so to have Jeff Wang on, he really brought in the
importance of the technology aspect of it and how the decentralized
finance perspective. So, it is a big topic. I mean, you remember when we talked about the underground piping, the shadow banking sys.
– Shadow banking system. – Okay, that's what I think of crypto. Like I think (laughs) it's a big topic. So I'm glad we're doing this show. I'm glad that we're
continuing to talk about it because I think digital
currency could be the future. – Well, I think it is. The reason I was talking
about we have a brain and we have a mind, the
brain does the physical, to see, touch and feel but the
mind gets the relationship, the invisible.

So one is physical, one is metaphysical. Not the challenge but
what's happened with Bitcoin or with crypto, it's gone invisible. So you can't see it. So, that's why Jeff Wang's
newsletter is crucial because you have to educate your brain so your mind can see what's going on 'cause you can't see it. It's not like gold or
silver or real estate you can see touch and feel. This world is so different now, it's like you don't need
Wall Street anymore, you can have a crypto
Wall Street in the sky called Polkadot or
whatever want to call it. And these young guys
are just inventing it. And if you don't see the new
Wall Street building going up called Polkadot, you missed the boat. – [Sara] Yeah. – I think that's the challenge right now 'cause it's invisible. What do you think?
– Definitely. And that's where he was
talking about the synthetics, the real life assets
though that are traded on these exchanges. In my mind, as he was talking about it I was seeing the physical,
I was seeing real estate, I was seeing gold, but
then trying to translate it into being traded on these exchanges and that is difficult to do.

– Well you got to train your mind to see what your eyes cannot see. Let me say this again. When I get a piece of real estate, I'm getting a derivative
called a mortgage, and then I sell the mortgage. So, I've taken a derivative
of a derivative and sold it. And that's what brought
down the real estate market because we're operating
in these derivative worlds and crypto just made it more derivative. So that's why I think Jeff's fantastic 'cause he does his best to keep it simple for somebody like me to understand. But if you're really going
to be serious into this I would subscribe to his newsletter. We don't make anything off it. But it's a way of staying
abreast of the invisible. You can build a whole new
stock exchange in the sky and never see it. (Robert and Sara laughing) – [Sara] That's true. – So, any final comments on that? – [Sara] Final comment is like you said, if you're gonna take on a new, I don't want to say investment, but if you're interested
in this, do your research, learn from real teachers, people
that are actually doing it, watch for scams because this is invisible it makes it easy to scam.

So, just be careful who
you're learning from, be careful where you put your money. That would just be my
advice to our listeners. – What I'm concerned about is 2021 it's going to be more violent than 2020. And I hope I'm wrong, but I
think that's what's coming. So that makes the idea
of just saving money and working hard… Technology is making people's obsolete. If you don't have a skill or something that people will pay for, then you're gonna have the
Democrats take care of you with UBI or MMT, but this
is the most screwy world and it's going to be a transition. You know, Jim Rickards says
it's about a 50 year transition we're going through right now. So that's why with "The
Rich Dad Radio Show," stay abreast of it. Not that you can stay abreast of all of it but you've got to do your
best to stay abreast of it.

So I thank you all for listening to "The Rich Dad" radio program (laughs). I'm completely lost, I
think I'll go have a drink and forget my problems. Anyway, thank you very much. Bye bye..

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