Bitcoin Heading to $6K: Time to Buy Altcoins? | Altcoin Dad & Joe DiPasquale

so these all coins can do a thousand percent who I see Bitcoin going up a thousand percent the next year not necessarily between these crypto that gets the most large investor interest my grandmother has always been all points I'm not gonna really change that now that's what's got me where I am today right now in this moment probably for the next year and were maximalist hi everyone I'm Giovanni welcome back to our show today I'm here with Joe DiPasquale CEO of at fund bit bull capital and prominent at coin trader Donny better known as outgoing dad thank you to be with us today guys let's start with Joe so since the beginning of December Bitcoin has been trapped in the mid low seven thousands what is your reading of the current situation in the Bitcoin mark Joe sure would you like last time we spoke I remember he was just after the rush of October with the news about China hitting and that you actually discussed that sentiment was most mostly speculative so we saw a raise a lot they started going into that news at around 7,500 and then spite of all the way to ten thousand six hundred what we see now is a fall below that seventy five hundred support line obviously in a pretty tight range right now it's sitting at seventy one fifty five or so and we've seen it jump up all the way to 70 to 50 70 to 75 over the last several days I expect it to continue to be in that range but we've noticed and from technical analysis just lower highs and wedging but having a very weak support so I'm generally bearish on Bitcoin this month and feel that I could even dip back into the 6,000 mm-hmm what what do you think Donny about Joe's analysis I know that you are a mainly an outgoing trader but maybe you can give you a perspective on it well technicals aren't really my specialty I there are more of a fundamental trader but from from what I see and it wouldn't surprise me to go back down into six thousands I'm seeing a lot of charts on crypto Twitter showing four thousand not really sure if that's gonna transpire or not but you know trading to crypto markets for the last six years nothing really surprises me at this point so you know I think that's pretty fair I think we might see a range and me personally as an Allpoint trader hope that we see some kind of tight range you know between seven and eight thousand maybe sixty-five hundred and eight thousand that way hopefully more attention more money will float at all points and that's kind of the position I'm taking Donnie your nickname on Twitter used to be Bitcoin dad why did you change it to Al coin that does it reflect the change of your trading philosophy no no I mean ultimately bitcoin is king so I'm trading out coins to get more Bitcoin ultimately so it doesn't really change my outlook or trading you know perspective but ultimately it was just uh you know it's been a two-year bear market you know it's been cut for our assault corners so I felt it was fitting to kind of change it up it looks like some of these coins might be turning around possibly you know getting a little more bullish in general from what I see in the charts and fundamentals looks like possibly could be turning around for some points is it gonna be as easy as 2017 I don't think so I mean the markets really diluted nowadays we had the rush I cos you know when when things were happening back then you know we were dealing with you know a thousand fifteen hundred coins now or thirty five hundred plus so I don't think it's gonna be quite like it was in 2017 involved points where to start popping off but ultimately if you have done your due diligence I feel that you could do pretty well mm-hmm Joe what do you think what do you feel about out coins how much interested you know the coins are investors at your hedge fund I think there's certain all coins that are interesting there's obviously been a lot of use in around aetherium from the Istanbul Court this weekend where we saw the price go up about 4% after a successful work and then staking has relievin of interest to I think investors and funds recently because there is this consistent given that you yet actually just in the last day Kraken announced Tazo sticking with a rate of 6% and that's after usually Mason on stage this evening and then of course Finance also announce tables sticking so the sticking coins like to Zoe's or D credit or cosmos even cos you know on a separate note has been of interest to people so so so so those are the home coins I think I hear about a lot mm-hmm what do you think Donnie are out coins like tasers and the ones that Joe mentioned at the center of your attention too yeah you know pay doses is one of my favorites I really think you know it's got a good base you know it's 1.2 billion cap it's a little high for me as a trader but to diversify my portfolio I make sure I do have high caps and in the coins I hold you know can't be that was a nice seal that raised two hundred fifty or two hundred thirty million dollars they have a lot of big supporters behind it so personally I like that coin I did see the staking I think by Nets even has a zero percent kind of fee on their end so that was enticing pride for a lot of people it could be a solid coin going into 2020 and beyond Donnie what does it mean to be an art coin traders doesn't mean that you don't trade Bitcoin at the moment and if so what is the actual rationale behind this position wouldn't it be better to trade both out coins and Bitcoin yes no I mean some traders like to do both personally I mean you know maybe who is a very low leverage position I mean they have these sites out now with you know times a hundred leverage which I just think is really crazy I wouldn't want to take a position like that personally but for me my grandmother has always been on all points I'm not going to really change that now that's what crema got that's what's got me where I am today so it wouldn't be bad to diversify a little bit if I do take a position it would be a small leveraged position in a spot that I feel that you know long-term would work out well and not some high leverage position to where it would just be too much babysitting for me I'd rather spend my time looking at all points and researching them so you know specifically you know me is an off point trader I don't necessarily trade on a daily basis I'm not a day trader by any means I would say I'm more of an investor you know to buy coins to where I think where they're at their lows or start building in position then and just kind of write it out from from that point forward being that we are on a two-year bear market I feel that would be you know it has been a good time to start buying some all coins which is what I've been doing mm-hmm Joe does that kind of position reflect the typical port with the typical profile of one of your investors at at bit bull Oh for us we actually run two funds one fun has those longer-term votes that Donny was mentioning and then another fund is more market neutral it is very short-term holds usually less than a dress in a couple days for us we do both Bitcoin in all points and we do all coins either if there's strong news or events around all coin that we believe is coming up or if we want it we literally like volatility on either side both up and down and so um just recently there's been a pretty tight corridor that bitcoins been trading in so it's about you know an annualized volatility about thirty percent but if you go down to all Queens for example stellar has been really volatile recently and so we sometimes want to if we see that it's going you know a couple standard deviations away from maybe its its historical price then we will want to get in either a long or short on that side would you say that volatility is something good or something that keeps people away from our coins I think for many people it keeps them away for us in our fund it's attractive because it allows us an opportunity you see on pricing errors I guess or just pricing anomalies and so then to get in on you know on either side of the volatility if we feel like there's a spread that we can make people have been talking a lot about this upcoming outgoing season when all coins will eventually take over Bitcoin in terms of market dominance so I would like to know your perspective on this Donny what do you think is this a scenario which is something possible yeah I mean I'm always optimistic about all points like I said after a two-year bear market this really reminds me a lot of of 2016 leading up to 2017 to despair even myself somebody's been in in in the game for six years you know start having my doubts you know is is it different this time are the markets not going to rebound but ultimately it looks like you know we're sitting at 65% or so Bitcoin dominance I would like to see it in the 50s personally and it looks like it's kind of teetering on the support of the dominance in general so all it might take is a little push and you know a lot of that money could go to all points so that's what I'm thinking you know if Bitcoin stays in this range we could see some of this money flowing into all points and you know then you'll see the dominance kind of take a dive and you know get into the 50s percentile do what do you think Joe do you agree with this kind of perspective I do I agree that the sentiment all coins is often a little too bearish um so the 65% dominance that Bitcoin has may decrease but overall I'm most bullish on the eclectic don't have a hold on the market or the actual transactions that they core enhance and so I'm more of right now in this movement probably for the next year and more of Bitcoin maximalist mm-hmm but that's interesting because in a recent tweet for example Donny said that this is actually the worst time ever to be Bitcoin maximalist so I might have found a point of disagreement between you two guys Donny what what what did you mean by that well I mean ultimately if I was somebody that bought the top in 2018 or 2017 with all coins I wrote it all the way down to now I feel there'd be a lot more upside in holding these bags if you haven't cut your losses yet then selling everything you have in all coins and just sitting in Bitcoin I feel that there would be a better way of making your money back if you were to write out the all coins for another cycle versus just selling it and you know holding big coin at that point you know some of these all coins can do a thousand percent so you know from this point if they were to go up a thousand percent do I see Bitcoin going up a thousand percent the next year not necessarily so risk reward in my eyes I would not be selling my off coin bags at lows being down 80 90 percent or wherever you purchased whether it was at the top a few years ago or building a position over the last year I wouldn't be selling personally and that's that's why Joe what would you reply to that um I guess for me I bitcoin is the crypto that gets the most large investor interest for example if you look at grace those offering the vast 90 plus percent is in their just their Bitcoin trust even early opera seria and a multi point option as well and so with the volume so low and with large and us your still just starting again in the space I think that between is still the first kind of point of sale as Donnie said there are definitely these all points that are doing well but for me I guess because I've seen so many cases of people getting burnt on all Queens I'm a little more conservative so if you talk to me about all the coins like I think of ethereal even how we're you know they're really moving very successfully towards changing to a proof of state which will be a huge differentiator and market and that will be in 2021 so there are things like that I'm excited about but um even with some of these additional launches of coins not going well for pricing it makes me it makes me a little once bitten twice shy about the necessay and many of them and you know and in Joe's perspective I don't know what kind of limits you guys have in regards to the all points if you have hey we're not going to invest in anything that's under a certain market cap either and as an Allpoint trader things have changed dramatically you know I've specifically trade on bit wrecks and you know living in the United States there's so many regulations now so many coins being delisted things are definitely changing you know which is good and bad you know I welcome the regulations but it seems like they're kind of cutting us off at the knees as an auto any trader living in the United States being that there's these regulations sites we can access coins we can't trade so that does make things a little more difficult being an Allpoint trader are you criticizing the way the united states that regulates cryptocurrency I feel that I mean I feel that we could open our eyes here you know in the United States we see China kind of doing a lot of things with the blockchain seems like they're supporting crypto currencies in general a little more open the United States kind of seems to still have the hard stance you know yet Donald Trump tweet about Bitcoin a couple months ago how he didn't like it and you know prefer the dollar and you know so I would like to see a little more open-minded about things regarding crypto currencies and I feel that you know potentially they're missing out on an opportunity for this new technology that's coming out I do see that the reasons behind it I mean when I first started trading back in 2013 2014 it was a Wild West so many shady things were happening people running off with money so I get where the regulations are going into place but I just hope that somebody had you know they're here to let them know hey not everything is bad there are good projects out there I hand the regulation portion of things but maybe loosen it up a little bit of course or get some clarification you know if you're gonna do it do it clarify it roll it out and that's it it seems like it's changing every month you know there's something different or something new there's something being tweaked and I'd rather just have it hey it is what it is this is what its gonna be and that's it rather than changing it every other day it seems like right so Joe what's the average opinion about about this from the point of view of one of your investors that a bit bull are also are they also looking forward for a better regulatory framework in the United States I think I think everyone wants just a clearer regulatory framework so as we know Bitcoin and etherium now both been deemed commodities but for the rest of the Kryptos unless they're one-offs such as telegram or kik or others it's murky as to what is security and what isn't and we definitely are yearning for just some clarity on that and some so so that would be helpful but whether we treat all of them almost in securities and you know the exchanges so so just to be careful essentially it doesn't really matter to us how they're deemed but we would love to see that clarity come along is there any jurisdiction in the word which you would point as a model for the United States to follow no I actually the United States is a leading jurisdiction and the reason that it is is because it's being more careful than many other jurisdictions and it's kind of excluding others excluding claims from being just being a commodity or being invested or by anyone so we're okay with that I think everyone's okay with that but I'm just I think the clarity on okay these you know this set of coins is a security in this set is if not would be great mm-hmm all right thanks Donny I would like to try to ask you is there anything if accounts that where daily stood in the United States that you were betting betting on or that you were following that you thought they were potential good potential but they were victim of this kind of very severe regulatory framework not necessarily I mean you know bit tricks has made a lot of D listings over time a lot of them were dead projects dead block changed so I kind of get their position I did have a couple positions that I was holding just for another cycle in general not necessarily for some breaking edge technology so you know and they don't really explain hey where do you listing because XYZ because of the security because of a you know that blockchain or an abandoned project so you know it's kind of hard it seems like hey the United States want to look out wants to look out for their investors and protect them and that's why they can put some these regulations in place but then the people that are in the United States that might and haven't already invested in some of these projects then they could be listed and you know my investments down 75 percent in a day so you know the protection you know protect the people from potentially investing okay but the people are involved are taking a hit in the mean time so some other coin critics like Eric Brown say that the liquidity of the coin market is too low which makes trading alts far too risky it would be like trading drugs basically it's like what's the point what do you think about this kind of statement I would disagree you know you gotta have a risk reward you got to diversify I wouldn't say hey go all-in this all coin that only has one BTC volume a day so you know if you diversify just like you know I did years ago you know ultimately one day it might have no volume and six months later it could be top of the board of the exchanges the trading on trading hundreds of bitcoins so if you're looking for a quick trade I would say that might not be the best idea but ultimately the liquidity will come at some point you know once these cycles start taking place again the money flows in the people jump on the bandwagon and you start seeing some some action across the board on these off points so I personally I invest in all coins they have market caps a couple million dollars all the way up to a billion dollars so you know if you diversify enough I feel that it's safer than just saying hey I'm gonna just focus on these five all coins that are a million dollar market cap with very low liquidity you know it could take a while to get rid of those positions yeah especially if you build a big position but this is what's worked for me in the past I don't see why I would want to change my strategy now Joe what do think about it so I I actually do prefer larger volumes so even the Bitcoin volume has been tapering off as of late and I think over the holiday season will continue to see lukewarm volumes for both Bitcoin and alternative claims the issue with that for me is that it creates unexpected movements because you can have larger purchasers come in and create a lot of volatility you know essentially even we talked about market manipulation before either a spike or a quick drop in the price and so even with the lower volumes of Bitcoin and especially as you get towards all clean it creates unexpected movements and usually those are just a quick blip and the price will go back to what it is but in treating it can either force you to get kind of you know if you set some sort of stop limit order I think it can wipe you out even though it was just a blip and the price recovers um or can create other other issues such as scaring the market and then the market actually following a trend either up or down before another shoe either drops or it goes up so I stay away from truly low volume on crypto assets unless there's something specific that I know about that crypto asset because I don't like the unexpected movements that it can beckon result okay so I mean as an individual investor you know I guess Jose Jose place you know as a trading fund probably has a lot more money to put into the market as just an individual investor so for me personally taking a half a Bitcoin you know position on a hall point isn't as risky as a fund that might be dealing with hundreds of thousands a Bitcoin to try to build a position so you know for for me or a lot of the people that are starting to get involved or is interested in crypto currencies in general or all coins they might be in a little better position to build on this based on the lower liquidity if you were some whale or you're a fund they're not going to necessarily be focusing on these small market caps because the books are so thin it can take just a sneeze or a fat finger to drop the market you know 30 40 % in one trade so you know and that's that's my perspective I'm not necessarily building a hundred Bitcoin pop coin position but for for me and maybe some of the other all coin traders they do something on a smaller scale to where maybe a fund would not be in that position Joe do you agree with what Donny just said about the difference between like a perspective of individual investor from the perspective of someone who is actually managing a hedge fund um I do agree that there are different issues that come at play when you play with larger dollar values because there is of course any kind you purchase or sell large amount of crypto assets or can be some slippage but in general I think you know if you're looking from an investor's point of view either the the outlook should be the same on a specific asset whether it you believe it will go up over time or down so I think you know there are probably specific alternative coins and we come into real life that are strong but generally I would avoid them of lower volume volume coins because of unexpected changes that can cause that can cause evil a strong coin to lose value because I am actually kut'rs to know like what is your vetting process in terms of evaluating which stable coins sorry which all coins are actually worth to invest – and which ones are not oh yeah most definitely I mean me personally and like I said I focus on the fundamentals I'm not a technical analysis type of guy or guru I don't really have any financial background prior to me you know doing crypto full-time I was in the insurance business so you know this wasn't necessarily my forte not like I came from Wall Street and Here I am jumping into crypto so for me the fundamentals is what I focus on they have a strong community a hard-working development or develop a dev team they're constantly reaching their goals and you know new technology you know following the roadmaps community communicating with the community those are all things that I look at you know and I like some of these projects that are four or five years old that are still working hard they might be overlooked they're under ten million dollar market cap but they're still doing things to this day five and six years later personally I never been a fan of ICO is because you're giving them a paycheck upfront some of these other all coins that are my novel and our proof of work these developers have to work in order for their project to be successful so I feel the incentive are with some of these projects that are proof of work due to that aspect verse hey here's 30 million dollars up front you know make something for us you know the developers are the ones that are there mining it with the rest of ever with the rest of the investors or buying on the market and ultimately hoping the project success based on their own work mm-hmm Joe what do you think is it pretty much the same method that you use it be able to evaluate out coins yes so as I mentioned so we have two different funds one fund is more of a longer term investing type hold and the other fund and that would take a similar kind of just similar perspective so one that I mentioned about what what what assets we we were fundamentally strong and potentially market changing and have um support from the community and developers and investors and that sort of thing on the other side though we have a fund that does mostly shorter holes in trading and that's actually almost you know it's very heavily technical analysis so we actually don't look at the fundamentals in that case we only look at the the actual price and the movement in that historical z– and we use a number of different models either looking at momentum or a mean reversion so just to wait it essentially just to make decisions on where we think the price will head in the next 24 to 48 hours so we have a couple different ways that we trade well I would like to consider a concrete scenario now it's about Matic network which is an outcome that went up like 180 percent in two weeks and then crushed down seventy percent in a couple of hours so how do you deal with this kind of scenario is it possible to predict this kind of pump and dump and you know I'm kinda lost words for that one you know I personally didn't follow the project I wasn't investor in it you know it seemed like I had high liquidity you know it was on finance so seemed like there's volume there it obviously has gone up leading up to that crazy dump that I had a lot of things I'm seeing it looks like it could be insiders on their end looks like they moved a large amount of their coins according to the block Explorer and it all went to finance so a lot of people think it might be an inside job I'm not wanting to necessarily point fingers but that's what the panel looks like it looks like a lot of their the developer's tokens went to finance and would explain such a large job and unfortunately in crypto currencies you can't control that and know that that's just a risk you're gonna take is it possible to to prevent something like that to happen or it's just totally out of your control well I mean I think Joe mentioned you know stop losses you know if you're you know you're in profit you're doing well it wouldn't hurt to put something in to protect yourself to at least you break even or if you're you know a couple hundred percent up at least do the stop-loss at a hundred percent you know you're still taking a good amount of profit and I'm doing well and protecting yourself against something like this so if anything that would be really I could say the only thing that would protect you for something like this Joe can you comment on this specific case so it's true that Maddock would be a little too early for us to invest in because of the lower volume and actually for me this kind of exhibits a reason to stay away from the lower volume coins just because you know the story around that is people didn't know whether there was it wasn't got a snowball effect that led to it dropping that I don't know what 60% down to about two cents something like that um people initially got scared because of some tweets from the matic foundation and you know suspicious token movements and then there were just a massive dumping of all of the coins but um I think that type of extreme volatility and for us something that would be really hard to catch um makes us you know again go with you generally higher volume assets what do you think Joe can this prolonged stagnation of Bitcoin result in a positive trend for out coins um I think generally what it can do is allow all place to take over some market share as Donny mentioned the claims currently sitting at about 65% of the entire on market market capital all crypto assets but in general I Bitcoin and all coins have moved together unless there's some specific case for a specific all point doing one thing or the other so I think it'll be until the entire crypto asset space has some renewed interest potentially in the new year that all of crypto assets will appreciate in value so we are moving towards the end of 2019 what do you think guys what is the most important event this year in the crypto space I don't know if there is necessarily one event I think just the market action in general I mean we hit lows of three you bounce back up to 13,000 I think it shows that you know bitcoins very resilient and you know I don't feel it's going away anytime soon that's for sure so I think that 2019 has shown that you know after the highs of 2018 kind of brought everybody back down to reality I guess you could say but did show that there is still a lot of interest in Bitcoin in general there's still a lot of buyers out there it's good to see these larger you know exchange talks you know we got ice and the CME and other institutions that are that are getting involved so it is a little more reassuring on my end but definitely for the newer investors you know myself I bought it a thousand dollars back in 2013 and went down to 200 so I think they're just kind of getting a taste of what a lot of us experienced early on from buying you know 16 17 18 thousand dollar Bitcoin to having it down to 3,000 but to see it bounce right back up to 13,000 is is definitely nice to see Joe do you share the onions point of view on 2019 I do share Donnie's you I think for me I see two things it's a this year reinforced the case both economically for crypto assets so we continue just a macroeconomic level seeing ballooning debt from countries and other issues that lead to you know the recent doing to make purport that digital currencies may come into the fore in the next couple of years so and then in addition we see more technical advantages to digital currencies and so of course the big Facebook Libre news was them trying to get all the advantages of a digital currency for payments and then in addition we see China the EU and others exploring launching digital currencies of their own so this year to me just reinforced the economic and the technical support for digital assets I would like to know from outgoing that if there is any specific alcohol we should look at in 2020 the most promising ones there's a couple I mean I mentioned tezo's I feel that that is a solid project hi market cap there's some other coins that are lower market cap coins that I that I like myself the ticker is da Jie it's called consolation they've recently gone into a contract with the United States Air Force which is kind of big news is still at about fifteen million dollar market cap there's the older coins I like I like Lauren coin radium these are coins that are under a five million dollar market cap but have block chains that are four and five years old with active development the liquidity might not be there they are traded on bit wrecks which is a large exchange and in my eyes hard-working developers and and projects with hard-working developers with time will pay off obviously in a bear market things are gonna get sold off people are gonna forget about them until they're not forgotten and then everybody's gonna rush back to buy some of these coins Joe what do you think about it I think in terms of all coins that I believe are will perform well there's still a lot of excitement around B&B finances coin so that's one that has you know fundamentals as I hope they have a strong token economy they have a lot of reasons that the DMV asset will continue to appreciate there's some investor excitement around maker as well and kr which is tied to a stable coin and you know of course there's with all of the volatility that we've discussed the stable claims remain attractive so those are – crypto assets that I hear a lot about but in general as done mentioned with Tasos and the other speaking Queens like cosmos and others those are digital also of interest I would like to know your price predictions for the top three all coins for the end of 2019 let's start with out coin dad all right so the end of the year I mean I think we see Bitcoin so around this range in the next month I don't really see any making a big move necessarily so you know I I'll be somewhat optimistic and say maybe 8000 for Bitcoin you know and then what we got aetherium next currently around one hundred and forty-four dollars you know right now for the all coins I really don't see we're gonna see some explosive move here in the next 30 days I see it going into first second quarter of 2020 but you know I'll say a Bitcoin at eight thousand theory I'm at 160 and then looks like what ripple is number three you know rip on my seal a little movement I'm personally not a fan of ripple but you know if all coins go up I don't see why ripple would neither so maybe say you know a quarter for ripple I'm a fan of light coin it's one of those coins that been around for a long time again has a long chain you know they're constantly trying to do new things I saw at one point they didn't want to implement some kind of privacy function to it kind of like grin like a middle Wimble I think is how you pronounce it but I'm I like light coin I invested and also so currently you know it's at $44 so I could see that you know maybe being at $50 here by the end of the year all right Joe what do you think about odd coin price predictions include OHS including also Bitcoin absolutely and maybe this gives me an opportunity just to quickly show some of the technical analysis so so so this is something we prepared for Bitcoin um I I i different from dhania that i actually believe that they claim will end the month weaker than it is now so right now it's hovering around 7,200 and the 7200 line has proven kind of a weak support line there's only a few times when it's hovered around 7,200 but we do continue to see this descending various descending triangles you can see these blue lines um the next support line isn't really until just above 6000 6200 or so and I believe that we could see it in the you know these lows that it's already gone to these loads of 6800 or lower going down to the so Bitcoin embarrass on my believe it'll and month in the 6,000th likely the high six thousands and then with aetherium if you're in mine I believe will actually hold its ground sitting at around 140 for right now I think that the air will hold its ground because of the strong technical developments and the theorem is generally undervalued it fell a lot more than big way it has in the last year and then you know with the others that were mentioned I I guess I don't like whether it's Bitcoin cash I would imagine or lose ground as Bitcoin does or Ripple I do see that I haven't seen a lot of strong you can use come out of ripple recently so I believe it'll lose ground as well but just one of the show this is why because of the general descending movement of Bitcoin is part of the reason we think it would ease decline and also the lower and lower volumes that we've seen which I don't think will resuscitate during December thank you guys for being with us this was Jodi Pasquale and CEO at beat bull capital and prominent Alcoa trader outgoing dad thank you for watching and the stay tuned for more exciting content coin telegraph like subscribe and hot off you [Music]

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